Shadowlands class feedback : Retribution focus

Making this as of the class change preview posted on 07/4/20. While its nice to see some abilities come back or be made baseline i’m very disappointed with the focus on holy power. I was hoping that we’d finally see holy power get the boot and return to mana as a resource for all paladins. The return of auras is great, however retribution aura might be useful in pve, it will be almost completely useless in pvp. specifically arena.

Doing Damage:
what i’d like to see for retribution is a focus on proc style gameplay, Divine purpose/ Empyrean Power and Art of War are the best examples of this.

I’d like to see abilities like exorcism, crusader strike, consecration, divine storm, hammer of wrath and Wake of ashes be baseline abilities that Ret paladins have. In the past and present Ret paladins have had passives that allowed exorcism and divine storm to proc on auto attack damage/crits. Removing the combo system of holy power and replacing it with these proc style passives would be a much better improvement and what i feel a lot of other paladins my self included liked about the class from the beginning.

Seals:
I understand that seals don’t really fit into the current game but if there was one seal i’d like to see return its seal of command. Seal of command is an iconic ability for the class and for ret specifically. I’d love to see this seal come back with its old lil jump animation just for the hell of it, you know we all loved it. Perhaps it could be worked into the retribution aura as a passive effect of the aura?

PvP:
There a many issues with Ret when it comes to pvp in both battlegrounds/arena, primarily with movement and gap closers.

Judgement:
Long Arm Of The Law - Successful Judgments increase your movement speed by 50% for 3 sec. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=205279/long-arm-of-the-law
This was a talent that was removed in legion, i’d like to see it return as a baseline passive of judgement to help with gap closing and general movment of the class.

Divine Steed:
Steed Of Glory - Your Divine Steed lasts for an additional 2 sec.
While active you become immune to movement impairing effects, and you knock back enemies that you move through. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=199542/steed-of-glory

This is currently a protection paladin pvp talent, this talent would do wonders for rets movement in arena and battlegrounds, the immunity to movement impairing effects should be the baseline of what divine steed does with the knockback staying a pvp talent.

Hand of Hindrance:
Hand of hindrance is a 30 second, dispellable (15 second with a pvp talent, when dispelled) cool down slow. This ability should be made physical given that it has such a long cool down and its the only slow that ret currently has, abilities that remove slows/roots should still remove it of course.

Hammer of wrath:
I’d like to see hammer of wrath return to its former glory of being the “hard” hitting ret ability, when you active wings this should be the go to ability for that large burst attack ret is known for.

Divine shield:
For years divine shield has been one of the longest cool downs in the game, 5 minutes, currently there is a talent to reduce the cooldown on it to 3 mins. For Ret specifically i’ve always wondered why this ability wasn’t on 3 min cooldown as the baseline, rets biggest issue in arena is the lack of defence it has and having such a long cooldown on this ability is one of the main reasons that rets struggle to make the cut for most setups. many other classes in the game have immunity spells with way shorter cool downs and this would bring ret in line with them.

The main problem for paladins:
Holy power. Holy power This system has driven many players away from playing paladins, with the recent switch that shamans have had, i don’t see why paladins can’t receive the same treatment. I hope my fellow paladin players will join me in calling for an end to holy power and a return to Mana

These are my thoughts on paladins, Ret specifically going into shadowlands. thanks for reading

8 Likes

I agree Holy Power is the biggest issue. Sadly Blizzard can’t seem to understand what paladins are supposed to be anymore.

Mana should be the main source, thus making it so if we are fully on the offense we can’t help out with helping to heal, which would make PvP a bit more interesting.

It also feels like they are -desperate- to follow the idea of ‘paladins should be the best when avenging the death of their comrades.’ This isn’t what paladins used to be at all. We sacrificed ourselves to make sure they didn’t die off to begin with.

Lay on Hands: We lost all our mana to give them one heal, at a cooldown, thus crippling our use of abilities.
Blessing of Sacrifice: We take some damage for them.
And of course, Divine Intervention: We kill -ourselves- to protect someone.

11 Likes

Holy Power would be fine if it the overall damage of your class was similar to how it played out in Cataclysm. For the most part, when playing in Cata, I didn’t even realize I had Holy Power as a resource because of the old Divine Purpose. The baseline damage and flow was amazing. All of your spells dealt great damage, and not like 1% of an average player’s HP.

Holy power is not an issue as long as ressource flows. So the only way was to make a filer that has 0 s on CD.
Besides, I don’t like the new retribution aura and I still don’t see the use of righteous shield.

1 Like

My 2 cents (RET PVE perspective)

Blessing of Sacrifice is ok-ish
Turn Evil is ok-ish

Hammer of Wrath => Nothing new
Sense Undead => useless

Shield of the Righteous => need some clarification (will we have to switch 1H + shield)

Word of Glory => Huge nerf for paladin ret in DONJON as it was one of the few things that make us special

Aura :

Concentration Aura => useless
Crusader => useless

A redesigned Retribution Aura => Why you keep pushing things we hate ? as usual i don’t want my DPS to be linked to a raid who is failing.

Devotion Auras => kinda ok but aura mastery is still for holy only, so we will probably let the holy pal take it.

Talent :

The Divine Purpose Talent => Nothing new , and no RET is picking that talent today.

Holy Avenger => Wait & see

Seraphim => Wait & see

Wake of Ashes => you gave us 1 free talent point, it’s ok

Empyrean Power => ok, but you lack creativity that much ?

6 Likes

It is an issue. You liking it doesn’t automatically it good and no matter how hard you wanna defend it with that one re-occurring argument of yours about “FCFS playstyle”, it does not and will never make combo point playstyle any good when it comes to Paladins. And I won’t explain again why. I did this once with you, not gonna do this all over again.

8 Likes

No it’s not an issue.

1 Like

Holy power makes the spec more fun, iv always liked it.

1 Like

Yes, it is an issue and has been since Cataclysm.

5 Likes

No it is not.

It was an issue during Cataclysm because we only had Crusader Strike as HP generator until they add the 2 pieces dragon soul tier set bonus changing Judgement as a HP gen too.
Plus Inquisition was a pain in the a$$ to maintain because of the lack of HP gen and the 12 sec buff / HP.

Then starting MoP and until now they changed our abilities into HP generator to smooth our rotation.

Right now the main issue is either a lack of HP gen (again) or the cd on our HP gen are too long.

Add a HP gen or reduce the cd on our existing one that’s all.

And yes Shihiroki is right FCFS was dumb even if during WotLK I loved my ret but when I think about it this gameplay was just press a button whenever it flashes on your screen (especially with T10 bonus set) without thinking because it has nearly no impact on your dps.
Why do you think at the time being our gameplay was called whack-a-mole ?

In WOD, we had a really fluent playstyle. Was HoPo an issue ? Nein, it was not.
Do ya trust Blizzard to make a ressource fun for paladin ? I’m fine with mana, it’s just that…I don’t trust Blizzard to make a syngergy gameplay instead of FCFS. If they make a true synergy gameplay then I’m fine. But I don’t trust them doing so. And I don’t wanna FCFS back, there is no skill in pressing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all over again.

FCFS is the name of the dumbest Algorithm ever made, which means that even the most retarded player could properly play Paladin, since pressing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 does not require any skill at all.

Holy Power = Combo Point. Combo Point doesn’t fit Ret. See previous threads, from a few months ago where I responded to your statements for more info.

5 Likes

Yes, it is. And I’m not gonna get into debating the 5 of you who want Holy Power to stay in the game. Since I already did that with Shihiroki a few months ago. Also, most people want Holy Power gone, so I guess most people are wrong and the 5 of you who want Combo Point Paladin to stay things are right.

6 Likes

Oh you want to go down that road ? Ok no problem.

Until now you haven’t proved why it’s an issue except blablabla I said it many months ago…

Great you know what I’m doing the same as you do now.

It is not an issue and I won’t debate with you anymore because you’re close minded and don’t want to discuss it openly.

You want to press button when it lights up on your screen without thinking ? Demon hunter is for you.

I always found the wack-a-mole style way more unpredictable and fun, on both the US and NA forum among other places, people are posting about bringing an end to holy power. I find the 1-2-3-tv system incredibly boring and as a result our holy power building abilities have become wet noodles with TV and DS being the only hard hitting ones. I understand that some may like it but from what im seeing a lot more people dislike holy power then like it.

6 Likes

The whack-a-mole style was boring too because our abilities hit the same during WotLK.

That’s why Blizzard added this resource for cataclysm (It was a way to tone down our endless burst).

But it’s your opinion and I appreciate the fact you clearly stated you like this combat style without saying HP is a problem.

In the end I know many players don’t like HP system but the opposite is true.
Many players enjoye HP system or prefer it over the whack-a-mole style.

Just because there is more than just 1 ressource doesnt mean that the class is hard/not faceroll to play, Ret paladins were known in wotlk to be a faceroll class even tho the specc was even more braindead in cataclysm and Warlords of Draenor it’s just that because of the Holy Power nonsense it didn’t feel fluent to play.

6 Likes

Cool I’m happy for you.

You don’t like HP system ? Leave the class because it won’t disappear.

Totally agree.

I have always been more in tune with the US playerbase than the EU one. I wish I didn’t have to move here.

2 Likes

I mean, you just refuse to believe holy power can be good and its all about how its done. Presence of holy power by its own is neither good nor bad. EU or US, anyone who is this dense is going to be dismissed.