as TWW becomes alliance centric. I believe it is time for the horde to disband and go on thier independent ways or some horde factions join alliance?
how do ye all feel about this proposal? horde only exists as a gameplay feature nowdays so thats why I will 100% play alliance in the TWW because horde is no longer in me.
Do we need the horde as playable faction anymore?
The only way to balance it is by making Midnight super Horde centric. Otherwise you are correct. Blizzard is completely uninterested even in habing slight tensions between two factions.
Itâs all rainbow and ponies now. Quite literally in some cases.
The first step to salvage it would be to have separate hubs for each faction again. With TWW having shared one it will 3rd expansion in a row to do so.
Blizzard never went more than three in the past to have continuous shared or separate hubs back to back.
This means Midnight must have each hub for Alliance and the Horde. Another bow into Horde centric expansion would be to not to have Alliance hub within Quelâthalas during midnight. But perhaps in reclaimed Gilneas with easy access to expansionâs zones.
You have two new nations introduced in TWW. New Dwarves and Humans. This screams Alliance. Unlike letâs say BfA where we had Kul Tirans and Zandalari.
Both Earthen and Arathi will have obviously have their architecture very reminiscent of both Stormwind and Ironforge. Places that you can reach in one flight. No deep tram required.
There is no Zandalar or Durotar balance the scales. On top of that Key characters are gonna be Darling Little Angel Jaina, Homeless Anduin and Modern Alleria. With Thrall being thrown out there because Metzen is back.
One story and one point of view which is very heavily leaning toward the Alliance.
Many people are fresh back from MoP remix. In that expansion we had two stories. Alliance one and the Horde one.
In the Horde the events were focusing on Lorâthemar, Volâjin and Baine. Blood Elf, Troll and Tauren.
People very much appreciated the dynamics between the three. As it was their first time working together. And they had been of different race and being leaders of the said races.
Alliance was focused on Varian, Anduin and Jaina three humans. Who at that time were very well acquainted, offering little nuance to their relations.
TWW feels like we are getting BfA but with double Kul Tiras and zero Zandalar. Like we are getting MoP with only the Alliance part to it.
Awful bait topic.
I feel very bad about this proposal and find it short sighted.
I believe we do need to have both factions, probably without any major conflict between them but keeping their identity separate, like it was in vanilla, TBC and Wotlk for example.
To those complaining about âTWW is alliance centeredâ do not be so short-sighted, guys. If every expansion would be perfectly symmetrical it would be boring. I actually like the idea of, says, this expansion be alliance races centered while another one being horde races centered.
Remember that in Midnight the plot will be happening in Quelâthalas, a home to at least 2 horde related factions: blood elves and trolls (and I am personally very excited to see amani trolls given good development). So itâs quite plausible that the next expansion will be leaning more to the horde.
Althogh I would also like to see bit of void elves and high elves development. As much as I like void elves as playable race, weâre given a very meager lore of low quality, especially if you compare it to our counterparts - Nightborne with their rich history, plot and culture.
And 3 alliance related factions since most elves are still part of the alliance. Stop arguing in bad faith. We all know Blizzard will find a way to backe the blood elves sidelined in their own backyard they already did it back during the Sunwell patch remind you.
What is great about a starting zone being turned into endgame content?
Not even close to it no.
IT WAS LITERALLY LIKE THAT THE WHOLE TIME FROM LEGION GOING FORWRD TIL NOW.
If the messages could flagged for stupidity, you wouldâve gotten banned.
I wasnât even talking to you and you jump on me with all your aggressive cliches. Until you change your tone to more mature and respective, I wonât be answering you, my friend.
TWW is alliance centered. Blood elves getting scraps bits in Midnight will Not change that.
BFA was very Horde-centeredâŚalmost nothing about the plot had anything to do with the Alliance. The War was started by the Horde and resolved by Horde internal fighting. I appreciate that given BFAâs generally abysmal plotting, itâs a bitter pill to swallow, but just because the Horde decided to re-equip the Helm of Stupidity doesnât mean the plot isnât chiefly about them. SL is about Sylvanas and Anduin, so split. âBut Baine sits on the floor!â sure and other characters donât appear at all. A plot isnât just listing every character appearance and then counting up how many of each there are. DF is just about dragons.
While itâs true that the War Within has chiefly Alliance characters, the next expansion is set in Quelâthalas, a Horde zone, so itâs reasonable to assume it will involve Horde characers. Though we canât know for sure until we play it.
As an aside I do think itâs funny how whenever thereâs an expansion where players in Faction A have to speak to Faction B character for some quests, a certain minority on whichever side complains that âevery expansion since time immemorial has been about the other factionâ. I suppose this means that Blizzard are generally doing a pretty decent job splitting faction focus.
You are wrong yet again.
to summarize the stories inbetween expansions look like this:
Mechagon was side content. It had little to no relevance to the main plot of the expansion, and was chiefly there to counterbalance the fact that almost nothing else in the overall plot was anything to do with the Alliance and because they needed to introduce another allied race to tally with the Vulpera.
Looking at the actual plot of the expansion â the Fourth War â it starts because of the Horde and is ended by the Horde. Obviously the Alliance do stuff, but you could have literally written them out and nothing much would change. The King of Zandalar dies but that only functions to make his daughter into the new monarch, which has nothing to do with anything. This is what I mean when I say that a plot isnât just tallying up the number of characters and which faction theyâre on and then deciding itâs either Alliance-leaning or Horde-leaning. A plot isnât just a list of dramatis personae.
The alliance ended the war by sieging orgrimmar again.
A plot is determined by who wins. And that was the alliance. Horde fighting itself until it barley functions anymore is by no means Horde content Just like WoD wasnât Horde content Just because it had non affiliated Orcs in it.
âŚwith Horde rebels, which were the actual reason the war ended, because the Horde was fracturing under the weight of their maniacal Warchief doing some more war crimes for fun.
Again, you can delete the Alliance from BFA and the overall shape of the plot doesnât much change. The Fourth War starts because of an insane Warchief, it ends because the Horde fractures and collapses into civil war.
In general I donât really feel that either Shadowlands or Dragonflight, or even War Within, were âaboutâ either fact. I get the argument that the characters themselves are associated with the Alliance, but theyâre acting as spokespeople for Azeroth itself. Personally I would have been perfectly fine, as someone who usually plays Alliance, to have stories more focused on Horde-aligned characters â although the Arathi are not Alliance, thereâs a significant overlap. Hopefully Midnight is more Blood Elf focused.
A plot is determined by who wins.
Absolutely not. Is The Empire Strikes Back about the Empire?
the alliance won. The Horde lost. Overall a net negative in terms of numbers for the red faction.
The Horde was excluded multiple times during the story between expansions. Argus, Final DF patch, all of TWW. The same was never true for your side since their Heroes drove the plot against every bigger bad guy so far from Sargeras to Illidan. That is almost 20 years we are talking about here.
the alliance won. The Horde lost. Overall a net negative in terms of numbers for the red faction.
Again, this is reductive. The Horde lost because it collapsed into Civil War and the entire notion of the Fourth War was stupid. Nobody felt good about the outcome. Alliance players watched their leader stand in the middle of Orgrimmar and give a speech about how noble the Horde truly was, despite this being the second time in a decade that theyâd passed the mantle of Warchief to a psychopath who launched a needless war of aggression. The entirety of BFA was beyond stupid, and the fact that youâre miffed because âThe Horde lostâ is missing the forest for the trees. It was a rubbish story about how the Horde, yet again, needs to return to its noble roots and stop putting morons in charge. The Alliance was only there to be the Stupid Good guys while the Horde put its house in order.
The Horde was excluded multiple times during the story between expansions. Argus, Final DF patch, all of TWW. The same was never true for your side since their Heroes drove the plot against every bigger bad guy so far from Sargeras to Illidan. That is almost 20 years we are talking about here.
Again, I would be happy to see more Horde character representation, not least because they keep falling back on the same small rotating cast of Alliance-aligned characters, which means thereâs never been time to develop most of the Horde guys. But I still think this is a case of mistaking Alliance-aligned quest givers with thinking these plots are thereby about the Horde/Alliance. They are not. They are about saving Azeroth for everyone. A plot is not a list of dramatis personae.
Yes they should. If the Horde is reduced to being the Allianceâs ugly buddy itâs dead anyway, so might as well give it an official funeral.
But if they go back to the Horde being the Horde, like it was once, before we had every Horde leader taking it as a personal insult when the Horde did something to the Alliance, then no.
But if they go back to the Horde being the Horde, like it was once, before we had every Horde leader taking it as a personal insult when the Horde did something to the Alliance, then no.
The problem goes both ways. They repeatedly write the Horde as aggressors, and not only that, but the most insane aggressors they can manage. They could have quite easily written BFA so that both factions were involved in escalating to a point that a cold war over Azerite sparked into a hot war, but instead they decided to have the Horde launch a completely unprovoked war of aggression with a side order of genocide. There is no way that they could have the entire Horde be on side with that without breaking character.
I would have been completely fine with a war that has no obvious bad/good actors. But instead they decided they wanted SHOCK FACTOR by doing something that was obviously going to rupture the Horde (yet again).
They donât have to write them as the aggressors. Just not as the Alliance buddies. The Classic formula was the best. You kept your distance, we kept ours. There were no inter-faction buddies aside the freaky thing Thrall and Jaina had going on. But nothing to the current degree where every major Horde character is odd buddies or full buddies with Alliance characters. Even Lilly Voss. God I hate her now. Anyway, the point is, it can be done.
But the fundamental issue is and always has been perspective. I used to think they canât write a faction war story cause they suck at writing war stuff, but I donât think thatâs true any more. I think, that in fact, they have an issue with perspective. They cannot assume different perspectives and they arenât the only ones. The players have that issue as well.
What I mean to say, you have the Horde doing something to the Alliance, right? An act of violence. They are unable to present that act as understandable, or even necessary FROM THE PRESPECTIVE OF THE HORDE CHARACTER. No, itâs evil. So yeah, canât do much when you approach things that way.
Take the stuff with Theramore. Garrosh bombed it. Evil. Bad. War Crimes. Thing is that was a legitimate military target and bombing the hell out of your enemy is something thatâs being done a lot in WoW, just at a different scale. I mean we did just use that Arathi zeppelin to put a hole in the nerubian populace, right? They are the bad guys so itâs ok.
Why was Theramore different. Why was Garrosh vilified over that act. It was a legitimate military target since it allowed itself to become an invasion point into Horde lands. How is it any different than that world quest we just did to bomb the hell out of a convoy in the nerubian caverns?
Perspective. Thatâs what it comes down to.