Should old raids be reworked?

Community General Discussion
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I think now is the best time to actually think about this, because with the level squishy and the change in leveling overall, the whole old worlds content has to be reworked anyway, so basically there is no better time to adress this than now.

Raids have always been a core aspect of WoW, as the game went on, more and more work went into the raids, and most of them ended up really good.

Seriously, playing WoD Raids is my most positive memory of the whole expansion, and I am not even one of the big WoD haters… the Raids were just that good.

So its kind of a shame that they just… well, rot away now. Sure, sometimes Transmog farmers or gold farmers visit a few older raids, but wouldnt it be much better if you could actually do them while leveling?

With the Shadow Zones (dont remember the real name) in the next patch, we actually get content that scales based on how many people you take with you, so why not rework the old dungeons and raids so that while leveling, you can actually do them with 1-5 people and actually get a good experience out of them? It wouldnt even be much to change, I think the mechanics that a single player cant do can do are in a very managable number, and for everything else it would literally be enough to push some numbers around. Every Old raid that can be done solo by a max level player would work just fine with only number changes.

And from the top of my head I can only really recall 2 raids that I couldnt finish alone, and thats the Insect one in Pandaria, because that one boss traps you and another player has to free you, and the other one is Hellfire Citadel in WoD, because Gorefiend bugs out and resets when you are alone… And Hellfire assault is a nightmare for every class that isnt super mobile…

So, what do you think? With the new “level as you like” concept Blizzard is aiming for in Shadowlands, shoudl the raids be reworked to become part of the leveling process?

2 Likes
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It would have been great if they did look into adding something like mythic+ for all raids.

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Not a bad idea, but totaly different topic and most likely much more work…

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Unless they give you an extraordinary amount of XP, no one will run them. And if it does everyone will just spam them instead of doing quest.

If it can be done by 1 person it is not a dungeon, and if it can be done by 5 person it is not a raid.

4 Likes
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I think it would be a positive experience to add old raids as part of the leveling routine, a stepping stone and a tutorial into raids.

The wow player base badly need some guidance, and making content trivial with huge difficulty and power jumps is only making things worse.

The difference between the difficulty of LFR and Normal is insane, Normal and heroic difference is acceptable ( only because you are usually heroic geared by the time you actually do a heroic raid ) but the jump from heroic to mythic is HUGE.

If old raids were integrated into the leveling experience, as a source of extra powerful leveling items and a tutorial of how raids will happen I think it would benefit all parties involved.

I mean the bosses are there, the people are there all it needs is some tuning and making it a viable leveling method and then raids would be considered as " mega dungeons " and a truly wonderful experience and adventure.

I think it would be far more interesting for example to level in AQ40 than just doing regular fetch this and kill that, were AQ40 bosses actually have abilities, tactics and what not, ofc they shouldn’t be as hard as real raid and made in such a way were the difficulty increases gradually.

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It would be great to incorporate raids into the leveling route, but I’m sure that balancing the difficulty and rewards is borderline impossible.

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I would be delighted to see all raids in the TW rotation, in combination with there always being a TW event, not just 1 week in 5.

Also normal/heroic/mythic versions of TW raids would be ideal :slight_smile:

2 Likes
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Big Nono. If mythic AQ 40 drops the same gear as the current raid tier, well that would be horrible. Either all raid needs to be reworked with extra mechanics, or we will have simple tank and spank fights that awards you mythic gear.

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Add some Quests that involve the raids. Problem solved.

Well, in that case, there are no raids pre BFA; because all of them can now be done with 1-5 people

Dude, take it easy, noone is talking about taking your precious mythic gear away from you… Thats not the point here…

All I want is to bring old, mostly forgotten content back into the game by making it part of the leveling process.
THis isnt about getting dem epixxxxx or stuff like this, this is about bringing old raids, that had much work put into them, back into the game as solo or small group experience so new players can at least see the whole storyline.

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Raids are end-game group content, they weren’t intended for leveling. Some of them are added via timewalking where-as their contents can be explored by soloing them on max level too.

When I was farming viscidous pet I did took few leveling toons from Silithus with me. Funny part was when someone was surprised when first pack drops multiple “mounts” :smiley:

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And now they are outdated content and noone but transmog farmer cares for them any more.

So in your eyes you would rather leave them dead instead of involving them in a regular playthrough because… “raids are endgame content!”?

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Even current tier LFR has very long queues so LFR queue for old raid would be even longer as it would rely only on leveling toons that are interested in that specific raid. With the Shadowlands revamped leveling there could be a nice culmination to do the expansion raids or at least the most iconic one but still - it needs active players.

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Did you even read my post?

I dont want them reworked as raids, I want them reworked as a scaling 1-5 player content like the shadow zones, challenging but doable, so leveling players can have them as part of the Story of whatever zone they level in.

1 Like
14

That would give you same location but different experience and mechanics or lack of thereof. Also if it’s islands/torgast alike 1-5 class role neutral then it will be simple hack and slash bringing it down to simple equation - does it give better exp/hour than other leveling options? Encounters like Illidan, Kaelthas, C’Thun and others were iconic because they were big raid encounters and not quick hack and slash.

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wasnt so clear in your post. Now it is and is a wonderful idea. But i dont know if is doable.

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And now they are no content at all any more because noone cares about them.
They are either on farm for transmogs or just totaly forgotten!

New players will NEVER experience the raid experience any more, because when they get max level and farm them, they kill the bosses before any mechanics even kick in.

With a rework to make them a challenging single player experience, Blizzard can bring all their old raids back, not as raids any more, more an instanced quest zone with challenging boss fights.

Seriously, why do you people act like people still run these raids with 40/20/10 man groups on a regular basis? News Flash, old raids are already single player content, in fact so easy that you can just breeze through them. Arthas falls to thousands and thousands of solo players who kill him before he even gets to his first mechanic every week after they breezed through the rest of ICC onehitting bosses.

I will just quote my opening post here…

Sry oif I soujnd passive agressive, but it really angers me how obvious it is that the people commenting here only read the title and maaybe one line of my post before commenting…

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Or you can simply not reward gear but something else, like AP.
What do you prefer, a 10 man raid with your guild to farm a weekly dose of AP, or endless WQ/Island (which nowadays are just a pull everything and gg?)

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Good idea in general, but i would prefer to scale all raids to actual max level and give NPC in capital city which will give weekly quest for some rare currency, like we had in WotLK, so even if people were geared in icc25 they still were going to Obsidian Sanctum etc.

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1-5 role agnostic single player is not a raid and never will be.

This is a MMORPG game, not Skyrim. A memorable raid encounter lasts 5-10 minutes, has mechanics that require whole group to perform them. Tanks have to swap, people have to soak or dodge things, healers have to react with cooldowns as the fight progresses.

Project 60 did run vanilla raids as a raid of level 60 characters, they even wipes. Old content is old and that it’s place. Majority of players plays vertical progression path even in Classic and want to progress their character further and further, that’s why it’s always the “endgame” that matters.

Because you outlevel them and they are treated as old content so you have a hidden buff to solo it.

Maybe you should start playing the end game, trying M+ or Heroic raids (not to mention Mythic) - maybe then you would understand what a memorable raid boss encounter is.

1 Like
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So let me get this straight…

You want the old raids to keep being absolutely dead and forgotten, taking the experience of killing the Lich King away from every new player and everyone who joined after WotLK, and your only reasoning for this is “muh raids should be endgame content!”.

I mean seriously, you are fine with outdated raids being farm content for transmog and mount farmers, but making them actuall content for new players that is part of the zones storyline is a no go?

And no, I never heard of “Project 60”, most likely because its such a small playerbase that noone really cares.

Honestly, right now what you write sounds like “I had to do it the hard way and I dont want anyone to get the same content any other way!”

Yes, of course its not a Raid any more, but the experience of the content wouldnt be lost.

Your precious “raid experience” is till there, in the new content. Its not gone or even lowered at all. Raiders literally lose NOTHING if older raids are remodeled into a 1-5 player experience.