Silvermoon brainwashing

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Blood elves are Horde merely because asian girls wanted a pretty Horde race to play as.

@Jakafo-sylvanas

And as you said, Horde guys wanted a pretty race for their girlfriends to play. It worked.

That’s just a meme, anyway. Blizzard had several geopolitical reasons putting Blood Elves in the Horde in WoW, starting with the big elephant in the room that logically they couldn’t be Alliance anymore because of the betrayal of Garithos in Warcraft 3 of course, and then, since this is only a two factions game, they had literally no other place to put them other than the Horde. They could have left them neutral as NPCs but we are talking of a race that is too big in the Warcraft history to be ignored like that and to be relegated as NPC-status of course.

Anyway, here’s the list of reasons Blood Elves were put into the Horde by a Blizzard dev, it’s not just for aesthetics:

~https://twitter.com/Aldo_WoW_420/status/1088386718934417409

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Jakafo-sylvanas

It’s just that this information made me wonder how many people these magisters brainwashed. That’s all

As far as we know, only those two (who were Blood Elves by the way but were going to start turmoil in the middle of the Capital at a time the Blood Elves couldn’t afford that because of the desperation).

Because otherwise, the Magisters would have also brainwashed the High Elves first, and Magister Umbric and his Void Elves later, but it didn’t happen and they were only exiled. It seems to me mindcontrol was the easiest solution to deal with them but it didn’t happen, it happened only with those two people as far as we know

[Chronorabbit-outland]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

otherwise, the Magisters would have also brainwashed the High Elves first, and Magister Umbric and his Void Elves later, but it didn’t happen and they were only exiled

The question is, could they? I mean, sure, logic is not something in the basis of the storytelling of WoW, but I’ve heard, that

The Void naturally seeks out and reveals deception in others [pg. 87].

© Shadows Rising

And once it got a grip on someone

Xal’atath (when Alleria absorbs L’ura):
The caterpillar has become the butterfly. She is all but ours now.

I am not sure there was anybody other than the player character who could abandon the Gift of N’Zoth. But we’re a special case (children of Azeroth, chosen of N’Zoth).

---

gl hf

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Here comes Sorceress, once again spewing his baseless headcanon…

starting with the big elephant in the room that logically they couldn’t be

… Horde, because they ravaged the country only a dozen years before that, and had their capital named after the psycho warmonger who actually waged war on the Alliance, Quel’Thalas included.

but we are talking of a race that is too big in the Warcraft history to be ignored like that and to be relegated as NPC-status of course.

Oh you mean like demons?

As for your link, it doesn’t say anything ground-breaking or relevant. He simply reiterates that it was mostly gameplay reason that blood elves joined the Horde → Horde need a second base in EK to counter the Alliance getting a second base in Kalimdor via the draenei. The “thematic” explanation is an obvious made-up thing to trick gullible people like you into thinking there was deeper thought put into it. Blood elves thematically would work just as fine as an Alliance race, since it’d still be TBC. They didn’t need to be Horde to work “thematically”.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Chronorabbit-outland

The question is, could they? I mean, sure, logic is not something in the basis of the storytelling of WoW

They could have brainwashed them even before Magister Umbric seeked the knowledge of Dar’khan and the Void, so it was totally possible. Or Rommath could have just imprisoned them. Or killed them. But Void Elves had to go to the Alliance at all costs, so it is what it is Anyway as I said we have no proof mindcontrol was used on more than two people -and only back then in TBC of course.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Horde, because they ravaged the country only a dozen years before that, and had their capital named after the psycho warmonger who actually waged war on the Alliance, Quel’Thalas included.

Oh don’t be so naive…even in real life factions and nations that have waged war and killed each others for a long time can enter in an alliance if their needs change and it suits them. French and English have killed each others for a long time in history but it seems to me they are solid allies now…

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

The “thematic” explanation is an obvious made-up thing to trick gullible people like you into thinking there was deeper thought put into it. Blood elves thematically would work just as fine as an Alliance race, since it’d still be TBC. They didn’t need to be Horde to work “thematically”.

They meant thematically Blood Elves were closer to Orcs rather than Humans at that point because of the history of Kael and his fall from grace because of the demons, the magical addiction and the fel taint (Blood Elves and Orcs are the only two races who are so heavily visually and affected by fel)

And even ignoring Garithos, there’s no way realistically Blizzard could have worked with the Blood Elves being Alliance in TBC. Not only the Humans and Dwarves would be too far to help them on a consistent way, but the Blood Elves would be constantly under siege of the Forsaken (in addition to the Amani and Scourge), because Sylvanas, despite Blood Elves being her former people, would not leave an Alliance Kingdom near her alone like that. The Blood Elves under the Alliance would lose the Ghostlands and likely Eversong and Silvermoon too. That would be a mess for them.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Oh don’t be so naive…even in real life factions and nations that have waged war and killed each others for a long time can enter in an Alliance if their needs change and it suits them. French and English have killed each others for a long time in history but it seems to me they are solid allies now…

Except that the Horde is not an alliance. It is an uniformed body ruled by a Warchief, to which the various members swear a blood oath of loyalty. That’s not an alliance. Theron is not an ally of the Warchief, he’s an underling.

They meant thematically Blood Elves were closer to Orcs rather than Humans at that point because of the history of Kael and his fall from grace because of the demons, the magical addiction and the fel taint

Baseless speculation. The Blizzard guy never said that. He just stopped at “thematically” they work.

Let alone the fact that, if that’s the case, then thematically they would also work very well with the night elves.

Not only the Humans and Dwarves would be too far to help them on a consistent way,

Very clearly the night elves were not that far, since they sent an army to Quel’Thalas.

but the Blood Elves would be constantly under siege of the Forsaken

Please, the Forsaken were a throng of undead living in a sewer and decrepit ruins. As for the Scourge, their presence in Lordaeron was crippled in Classic after the defeat of Kel’thuzad.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Except that the Horde is not an alliance. It is an uniformed body ruled by a Warchief, to which the various members swear a blood oath of loyalty. That’s not an alliance.

Exactly, but it doesn’t change much, we have plenty of examples in real life of a smaller nation joining an empire for protection against another enemy. Starting with the ancient Roman Empire of course, nations who waged war against the Romans for a long time were ultimately happy to join them after the war because the Roman Empire brought protection to them and a way to evolve their own people.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Theron is not an ally of the Warchief, he’s an underling.

I agree with you in TBC times but technically even that could be argued by the fact that the Blood Elves upon joining the Horde are not really forced to say the Blood Oath of the Orcs. So they could be considered Horde by “proxy” and indeed it wasn’t Warchief Thrall who forced them to join the Horde forces in Northrend during the campaign of the Lich King, but rather Sylvanas, for example.

Anyway now the Horde as a Council so for now it is more of an alliance of nations than the actual Alliance, to be fair.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

He just stopped at “thematically” they work.

Yes, thematically magical addiction, fel and Demons worked more with the history of the Horde than the Alliance.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Very clearly the night elves were not that far, since they sent an army to Quel’Thalas.

Not really an army, just a few spies. And notice the rest of the Alliance -Humans and Dwarves- couldn’t afford to back their efforts up in Quel’thalas so the Night Elves had to work alone there. That kind of help wouldn’t last long against Forsaken, Amani, Scourge.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Please, the Forsaken were a throng of undead living in a sewer and decrepit ruins.

They were happily decimating Humans in Hillsbrad and already pushed into Arathi while Stormwind wasn’t reacting at all…sorry if I don’t want an additional enemy in Quel’thalas considering the Humans of Stormwind could not stop the Forsaken in Lordaeron, much less Quel’thalas

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Exactly, but it doesn’t change much, we have plenty of examples in real life of a smaller nation joining an empire for protection against another enemy. Starting with the ancient Roman Empire of course, nations who waged war against the Romans for a long time were ultimately happy to join them after the war because the Roman Empire brought protection to them and a way to evolve their own people.

They didn’t exactly have a “choice”, as they were conquered. It’s not like they could’ve said “No”. Very clearly this is not the case with Quel’Thalas and the Horde.

I agree with you in TBC times but technically even that could be argued by the fact that the Blood Elves upon joining the Horde are not really forced to say the Blood Oath of the Orcs.

No, it can’t be argued. All members of the Horde are required to pledge themselves to the blood oath upon joining the Horde. Why do you think Saurfang and Vol’jin were called “rebels” while Sylvanas’ forces were “loyalists”? Why do you think Lor’themar had to send his people into suicide missions despite his wishes, simply because Garrosh demanded it?

Yes, thematically magical addiction, fel and Demons worked more with the history of the Horde than the Alliance.

Which is still an assumption.

He still.
Stopped.
At “Thematically”.

Let alone the fact that night elves also have a history of magical addiction, fel and demons.

Not really an army, just a few spies.

“Just a few spies?” Did you go to the Ghostlands, like ever? They set up multiple outposts on the mainland and employed several troops.

That kind of help wouldn’t last long against Forsaken, Amani, Scourge.

The Forsaken sent a bunch of troops to Tranquillien, that was enough to last against the night elves, Amani, and Scourge, so very clearly the army the night elves had would hav ebeen enough.

They were happily decimating Humans in Hillsbrad and already pushed into Arathi

Yes, after they started mass-raising people with the val’kyrs.

while Stormwind wasn’t reacting at all

Yes, since it was fighting the Horde on distant battles, as stated in the in-game opening intro.

sorry if I don’t want an additional enemy in Quel’thalas considering the Humans of Stormwind could not stop the Forsaken in Lordaeron,

You do realize the blood elves LET the Forsaken into Quel’Thalas, right? It’s not like the Forsaken were in a superior position. Even in Tranquillien there are more blood elf troops than undead.

Also, why are you starting from the assumption that the Forsaken would march against the blood elves? Because they are Alliance? You do realize there wasn’t a faction war back then, right? Did you not look at the Dark Portal?

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

They didn’t exactly have a “choice”, as they were conquered. It’s not like they could’ve said “No”. Very clearly this is not the case with Quel’Thalas and the Horde.

Because if they had said no to Sylvanas and joining the Horde, they would likely be conquered. That’s a risk you don’t take lightly against a superior enemy. Even Alterac was afraid of the Horde of Doomhammer and willing to make a deal with them.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

All members of the Horde are required to pledge themselves to the blood oath upon joining the Horde.

That’s true for the members of the Kalimdor Horde. It might or might not be true for the Eastern Kingdom Horde races though. Upon joining Thrall doesn’t force the Blood Elves to say the Oath, although this is probably true for the allied races so it might be a lost tradition at this point. Still, I am willing to concede this point right now, but technically there’s no visual representation of Blood Elves saying the Oath.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Why do you think Lor’themar had to send his people into suicide missions despite his wishes, simply because Garrosh demanded it?

Indeed Lor’themar was not happy when he found out that the Blood Elven lives were wasted by Garrosh like that and immediately he entered in contact with Varian for joining the Alliance. So he didn’t know Blood Elves were being used like Garithos did in the past as well.

This actually creates a nice contrast with the Void Elves who despite their abysmally low population already die -for almost nothing- in suicide missions for the Humans in Nazmir. Just to kill Rastakhan but ultimately pushing the Zandalari into the Horde regardless. Thalassian lives wasted by the Alliance like that, disgusting

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Let alone the fact that night elves also have a history of magical addiction, fel and demons

Yes but Night Elves are only a race, not a faction. Furthermore in WoW -unlike WC3- they wanted to create a long lasting enmity between Blood Elves and Night Elves because of the evolution of their past history.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

“Just a few spies?” Did you go to the Ghostlands, like ever? They set up multiple outposts on the mainland and employed several troops.

Several outposts made by tents and a few towers (on an island, not in the mainland). If you want to call a few Sentinels and Druids an army -they don’t even have siege weapons- sure, do that. A very weak army in that case that a single Blood Elf could easily decimate lore-wise. That’s no relevant help against the might of races like Forest Trolls and Undead who have their capitals and centers of power in or near Quel’thalas.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Yes, after they started mass-raising people with the val’kyrs.

No, even in Vanilla Humans of Lordaeron (and possibly Kirin Tor ones too) were being killed by the dozens by the Forsaken both in Silverpine and Hillsbrad. And there were skirmish in Arathi and Western Plaguelands too.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Yes, since it was fighting the Horde on distant battles, as stated in the in-game opening intro.

Well Lordaeron could be counted as a distant battle for Stormwind. Except Stormwind didn’t care while Human farmers were being killed in Hillsbrad as Southshore was left mostly alone.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

You do realize the blood elves LET the Forsaken into Quel’Thalas, right? It’s not like the Forsaken were in a superior position. Even in Tranquillien there are more blood elf troops than undead.

Because they were allies, otherwise the Forsaken would have likely sent more and that would be troubles.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Also, why are you starting from the assumption that the Forsaken would march against the blood elves? Because they are Alliance? You do realize there wasn’t a faction war back then, right? Did you not look at the Dark Portal?

Yes because they would be Alliance. Even without a faction war sorry if I don’t want to take the risk of Blood Elves being murdered by Forsaken near the Thalassian borders -and maybe even inside- simply because the Humans are too far to help them. If anything it’s you who have to remember they just had lost their source of power and 90% of their population so they cannot take ANY risk at all with their people…

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Because if they had said no to Sylvanas and joining the Horde, they would likely be conquered. That’s a risk you don’t take lightly against a superior enemy. Even Alterac was afraid of the Horde of Doomhammer and willing to make a deal with them.

What are you even talking about?

1. Sylvanas can’t just wage war on a neutral country without the Warchief approving, and there was no open war back then.
2. Alterac was afraid of the Horde when it was in its prime, strong enough to conquer the entire world. The Horde in WoW very clearly is weaker than the imperialist Horde of WC2, which came close to conquering the world.

That’s true for the members of the Kalimdor Horde. It might or might not be true for the Eastern Kingdom Horde races though.

No, it’s true for those members too.

but technically there’s no visual representation of Blood Elves saying the Oath.

There doesn’t need to be one.

Indeed Lor’themar was not happy when he found out that the Blood Elven lives were wasted by Garrosh like that and immediately he entered in contact with Varian for joining the Alliance.

Since it’s not an alliance, he had to follow Garrosh’s orders regardless of his personal intentions.

Thalassian lives wasted by the Alliance like that, disgusting

Y… You do realize that was the plan, right? They weren’t wasted because of stupidity, it was the entire plan all along to waste them, and they volunteered. That’s quite different from Garrosh just throwing people into a meat grind because he doesn’t care.

Yes but Night Elves are only a race, not a faction.

You literally mentioned the orcs, who are also just a race…

Furthermore in WoW -unlike WC3- they wanted to create a long lasting enmity between Blood Elves and Night Elves because of the evolution of their past history.

No, because asian players wanted a pretty Horde race, so they write some BS reasons for some elven drama. It’s not hard dude.

Several outposts made by tents and a few towers (on an island, not in the mainland).

Still more than the Forsaken outposts, which are 0, as they share the decrepit ruins of Tranquillien with the elves. Also still more troops than the Forsaken, whose NPCs can literally be counted on 10 fingers.

that a single Blood Elf could easily decimate lore-wise.

You do realize it was also a single blood elf adventurer who liberated the Ghostlands villages and defeat Dar’khan Drathir, right?

That’s no relevant help against the might of races like Forest Trolls and Undead who have their capitals and centers of power in or near Quel’thalas.

The Amani are there regardless, as for the Undercity it’s separated by the huge plaguelands, and they were not at war with the Alliance anyway.

No, even in Vanilla Humans of Lordaeron (and possibly Kirin Tor ones too) were being killed by the dozens by the Forsaken both in Silverpine and Hillsbrad. And there were skirmish in Arathi and Western Plaguelands too.

And they were still there in Cataclysm, except for the Hillsbrad ones of course who were defeated by the plague created in WotLK and the val’kyrs recruited in Cataclysm.

Well Lordaeron could be counted as a distant battle for Stormwind. Except Stormwind didn’t care while Human farmers were being killed in Hillsbrad as Southshore was left mostly alone.

Or maybe it doesn’t count as a distant battlefield.

Because they were allies, otherwise the Forsaken would have likely sent more and that would be troubles.

Baseless headcanon. Then again, that’s your forte.

Yes because they would be Alliance.

Who are not at war with the Horde. Case closed.

You know, you have this incredible talent to make up a ton of baseless headcanon and still say so little in the end.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Sylvanas can’t just wage war on a neutral country without the Warchief approving, and there was no open war back then.

She doesn’t need to wage war on Blood Elves to kill them and lower their numbers even more. Again, Humans -and just civilian farmers- were happily being killed in Hillsbrad while the Alliance wasn’t reacting at all. Sorry if I don’t want something like that for the Blood Elves. Also remember that Nathanos had attacked Quel’Danil Lodge and decimated the High Elves there as well. Sure, they survived, but they also took losses, something that I am sure you know the Blood Elves cannot take very lightly anymore.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Since it’s not an alliance, he had to follow Garrosh’s orders regardless of his personal intentions.

He went with it until the lives were wasted, then he wanted to rebel.

Regardless, that’s only an example, in the Battle for Lordaeron Blood Elves were not forced to join the main Horde army in Undercity by Warchief Sylvanas. So they might have a bit more of autonomy in recent times actually.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

You literally mentioned the orcs, who are also just a race…

More like the history of the Horde as a faction. And the Night Elves despite having a history with Demons, they didn’t have a “fall of grace” theme like Blood Elves and Orcs. Most of their people was not changed by a demonic invasion in the big way Mag’har Orcs and High Elves were -who also both carry the green taint of the fel on their very skin AND eyes yet-

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

pretty Horde race

Sure, but you would be surprised to know for quite a lot of people Blood Elves are ugly actually. A lot of people like them but also a lot of them don’t like their rough and angular features for example. So if they really wanted to add a simple “cute” race, they would have chosen Pandaren for example, or something like Vulpera. Blood Elves are more “edgely and darkly sexy” rather than simply cute. But they had other motivations too as I put on my previous link…

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

You do realize it was also a single blood elf adventurer who liberated the Ghostlands villages and defeat Dar’khan Drathir, right?

We defeated Dar’khan but not the Scourge or the Amani themselves. Meanwhile there’s no mention of your oh-so-big Night Elves army in Quel’thalas after TBC. Probably because they weren’t an army at all but just a few measly spies who should not be counted as help for the Blood Elves at all

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Who are not at war with the Horde. Case closed.

Cold war who was turning hot anyway, and the Forsaken had no problems attacking the Alliance people anyway. Sorry if I do not want to join the Alliance and just become another target…

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

She doesn’t need to wage war on Blood Elves to kill them and lower their numbers even more.

Do… do you not understand how that’s done?

Again, Humans -and just civilian farmers- were happily being killed in Hillsbrad while the Alliance wasn’t reacting at all.

Aside from the fact that it’s not true that the Alliance was not reacting, because there were Alliance troops in the region and even a massive dwarven fortress, the Forsaken were picking on isolated towns, whereas the blood elves can just take refuge in a giant magical city.

Also remember that Nathanos had attacked Quel’Danil Lodge and decimated the High Elves there as well.

HAHAHAHA, Are the blood elves so weak that they’d get solo’d by Nathanos? So sad.

He went with it until the lives were wasted, then he wanted to rebel.

Key word “Rebel”. You don’t rebel against an ally, you rebel against a lord.

More like the history of the Horde as a faction.

Trolls and tauren have no connection to the demons. More like the history of the ORICSH Horde.

And the Night Elves despite having a history with Demons, they didn’t have a “fall of grace” theme like Blood Elves and Orcs

They literally lost their huge global empire because of the Legion.

Sure, but you would be surprised to know for quite a lot of people Blood Elves are ugly actually. A lot of people like them but also a lot of them don’t like their rough and angular features for example. So if they really wanted to add a simple “cute” race, they would have chosen Pandaren for example, or something like Vulpera. Blood Elves are more “edgely and darkly sexy” rather than simply cute. But they had other motivations too as I put on my previous link…

No.

We defeated Dar’khan but not the Scourge or the Amani themselves.

You… you do realize even with the Horde they could not defeat the Scourge and Amani, right? The Scourge are still lurking in the area as of BfA, and the Amani resisted and had to be defeated by an Alliance-Horde coalition.

Probably because they weren’t an army at all but just a few measly spies who should not be counted as help for the Blood Elves at all

Given how they represented such a huge threat to the elves, so much so that Thrall cites them as a reason as to why he should protect Quel’Thalas, No.

Cold war who was turning hot anyway,

Not really, since Alliance and Horde troops fought side by side against the Legion at the Dark Portal.

Sorry if I do not want to join the Alliance and just become another target…

For whom? The Forsaken? Who literally had NO PRESENCE AT ALL in the Plaguelands?

Why do you think the blood elves had to set up a portal linking Silvermoon to the Undercity?

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

because there were Alliance troops in the region

Yes, they were busy defending Southshore while the Forsaken were happily slaughtering the civilians all around the region. Disgusting to say the least. (I’m talking both about the Forsaken for doing that, and the useless Alliance of Stormwind for not protecting their people at all)

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

massive dwarven fortress

Yes, and in that oh-so-massive (and powerful!!!) Dwarven fortress- the Forsaken slaughtered every single Dwarf in there. Then the Dwarves returned as ghosts and they were left alone because they were harmless anyway.

Congratulation for the military effort against the Forsaken, Ironforge Dwarves…oh wait

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

HAHAHAHA, Are the blood elves so weak that they’d get solo’d by Nathanos? So sad.

Considering Nathanos and his dogs was a raid boss that needed a capped Alliance raid of fully epic geared people in order to even have a chance to be taken down (and this was already in Vanilla)…you catch my drift. He alone could have been a huge threat for the Blood Elves if they were Alliance.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Trolls and tauren have no connection to the demons. More like the history of the ORICSH Horde.

All races have connection to the Legion (Tauren helped in the War of the Ancients too). But Orcs, High/Blood Elves and even Forsaken -as Scourge was a Legion proxy back then before the lore of the Shadowlands could retcon it all- were the only people changed phisically and politically by fel energy and demons.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Given how they represented such a huge threat to the elves, so much so that Thrall cites them as a reason as to why he should protect Quel’Thalas, No.

Yes huge threat, who was dealt in a few quests and never mentioned again. Also if the Alliance could help the Blood Elves this much, then I still blame them because they chose to spy and turn hostile rather than actually help like the Forsaken.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

For whom? The Forsaken? Who literally had NO PRESENCE AT ALL in the Plaguelands?

Yes the Forsaken dear. I’m sure you know an undead (Forsaken) army can march through a Scourgified territory pretending to be Scourge (they won’t need supply lines nor they will get tired as Undead) and then attack an Alliance-affiliated Quel’thalas by surprised.

Oh wait you don’t know all of that, as you are an Alliance/Stormwind fan who never had to deal with a Forsaken invasion in the south (because the Undead in Darkshore were totally as dangerous as the Forsaken and Scourge, right??! Don’t make me laugh

Not to mention that the Humans of Stormwind themselves killed the Forsaken ambassadors who Sylvanas sent in order for the Forsaken to join the Alliance so it’s not like they didn’t have any fear about the Forsaken, despite being very far by them and not closer to them like the Blood Elves.

As the old saying goes…if you cannot fight them, join them…

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Yes, they were busy defending Southshore while the Forsaken were happily slaughtering the civilians all around the region.

Not disgusting. It is any duty of the Horde to kill as much alliance scum as possible. Vengeance for Rastakhan!

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Yes, and in that oh-so-massive (and powerful!!!) Dwarven fortress- the Forsaken slaughtered every single Dwarf in there. Then the Dwarves returned as ghosts and they were left alone because they were harmless anyway.

They were no match for the might of the Forsaken!

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Considering Nathanos and his dogs was a raid boss that needed a capped Alliance raid of fully epic geared people in order to even have a chance to be taken down (and this was already in Vanilla)…you catch my drift. He alone could have been a huge threat for the Blood Elves if they were Alliance.

Nathanos is bae. Almost favorite character. Hope he will go down like a boss.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Erevien-die-aldor

Not disgusting. It is any duty of the Horde to kill as much alliance scum as possible. Vengeance for Rastakhan!

Well, I’m dealing with an Alliance fan but I don’t want to appear more Horde-biased as I only truly like Blood Elves so I have to give them something too. Alliance not protecting their civilians is atrocious but Forsaken attacking them was not very nice either (and I think they were under Varimathras’ orders rather than Sylvanas, Varimathras was the one who had the task purging the Humans from Lordaeron after all, Sylvanas was already more preoccupied with the Lich King and the Plague even in Vanilla)

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

Alliance didn’t feel sorry for razing Zuldazar and killing Rastakhan in cold blood. So I won’t feel sorry for turning humans into pumpkins. We are even now.

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

Yes, they were busy defending Southshore while the Forsaken were happily slaughtering the civilians all around the region. Disgusting to say the least. (I’m talking both about the Forsaken for doing that, and the useless Alliance of Stormwind for not protecting their people at all)

You do realize they only had two civilian centres in the region, Southshore and Hillsbrad, both of which were protected right? There are even books in Hillsbrad that indicate that the people there were in contact with both Stormwind and Ironforge → Hence why there is a dwarven military stronghold in the area.

Yes, and in that oh-so-massive (and powerful!!!) Dwarven fortress- the Forsaken slaughtered every single Dwarf in there. Then the Dwarves returned as ghosts and they were left alone because they were harmless anyway.

Congratulation for the military effort against the Forsaken, Ironforge Dwarves…oh wait

Aside from the fact that the battle is described by the Forsaken as one of the bloodiest they ever fought, that happened shortly before Cataclysm, at which point the Forsaken were already bolstered militarily.

Considering Nathanos and his dogs was a raid boss that needed a capped Alliance raid of fully epic geared people in order to even have a chance to be taken down (and this was already in Vanilla)…you catch my drift. He alone could have been a huge threat for the Blood Elves if they were Alliance.

Considering how Nathanos literally did nothing between his defeat in Classic and Legion, who cares.

All races have connection to the Legion (Tauren helped in the War of the Ancients too).

Then even f!cking humans have connection to the Legion, or did you forget their contribution to the Third War?

But Orcs, High/Blood Elves and even Forsaken -as Scourge was a Legion proxy back then before the lore of the Shadowlands could retcon it all- were the only people changed phisically and politically by fel energy and demons.

And? Are you so superficial as to ignore actual background lore because “but they have green parts of their body, so they are more connected!”

Yes the Forsaken dear. I’m sure you know an undead (Forsaken) army can march through a Scourgified territory pretending to be Scourge (they won’t need supply lines nor they will get tired as Undead) and then attack an Alliance-affiliated Quel’thalas by surprised.

I can’t tell if you are trolling or not. You… you do realize the Scourge is a hivemind, right? They’d realize if an army of undead is free-willed or controlled by the Lich King.

Oh wait you don’t know all of that, as you are an Alliance/Stormwind fan who never had to deal with a Forsaken invasion in the south (because the Undead in Darkshore were totally as dangerous as the Forsaken and Scourge, right??! Don’t make me laugh

I’m not sure you understand the difference between real life and a videogame. I’m a Stormwind fan but I’m also able to read the story of other factions. It’s not like one can only know one strict thing in life…

So let me get this straight, if I main a human there is some weird magical restriction that forbids me from making a blood elf alt and playing through those questlines? Or do you genuinely think that we are all magical races living on Azeroth?

Not to mention that the Humans of Stormwind themselves killed the Forsaken ambassadors who Sylvanas sent in order for the Forsaken to join the Alliance so it’s not like they didn’t have any fear about the Forsaken, despite being very far by them and not closer to them like the Blood Elves.

Huh, they feared the Forsaken not because they are Forsaken, but because they are undead, and the undead had just ravaged several nations. They were not able to make the distinction between Forsaken and Scourge.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

You do realize they only had two civilian centres in the region, Southshore and Hillsbrad, both of which were protected right? There are even books in Hillsbrad that indicate that the people there were in contact with both Stormwind and Ironforge → Hence why there is a dwarven military stronghold in the area.

I wouldn’t called them “protected” considering they were under constant Forsaken attack for years, civilians included. Then in Cataclysm Blizzard had enough of Southshore vs Tarren Mill and made the Forsaken outright defeat the Alliance in Hillsbrad.

So maybe that would have been the fate of the Alliance-aligned Quel’thalas too. Constant struggles and bloodshed against the Forsaken sending raiding parties against them, little to no Alliance help, until Cataclysm when the Forsaken seize the Ghostlands and possible Eversong too.

Sooooooooorry if I say no to that as a Blood Elf fan…and no, I won’t take that risk either, with the 90% diminished population.

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Aside from the fact that the battle is described by the Forsaken as one of the bloodiest they ever fought,

Alliance bias. Every time the Alliance loses they have to be thrown a bone. This is actually the same that happened during the War of the Thorns, with the entire Horde of Kalimdor struggling and taking losses against a few Night Elves (the bulk of the Night Elf army was away, so…)

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Considering how Nathanos literally did nothing between his defeat in Classic and Legion, who cares.

Considering I just told you in Vanilla he alone could go anywhere he wanted in the Eastern Plaguelands under the order of Sylvanas, and he massacred the High Elves in Quel’Lithen Lodge who were near Quel’thalas…

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

I’m not sure you understand the difference between real life and a videogame. I’m a Stormwind fan but I’m also able to read the story of other factions. It’s not like one can only know one strict thing in life…

Yes but then don’t discount the lore of other races (especially the Horde ones) like that. It’s correct that Blood Elves were put in the Horde for aesthetic reasons, but there were several others, otherwise Blizzard could have picked any cute race for the Horde (that made more sense than Blood Elves)

@Daelinna-argent-dawn

Huh, they feared the Forsaken not because they are Forsaken, but because they are undead, and the undead had just ravaged several nations. They were not able to make the distinction between Forsaken and Scourge.

They had the right to fear some Undead and reacted by killing them. The Blood Elves reacted in another way because Sylvanas was one of their former most important people so they ended up trusting them into the Horde since the Alliance was no longer a valid option for the protection of Quel’thalas. I totally don’t see a problem with this valid lore reason for Blood Elves in the Horde, as much as you don’t like that. I don’t like that a lot either actually and preferred them to be independent (since the Alliance cannot be trusted anymore), but I have learned to deal with it and accept the reasons/consequences, and you will too…

[Daelinna-argent-dawn]

I wouldn’t called them “protected” considering they were under constant Forsaken attack for years

As was Tarren Mill, the only Forsaken settlement in the region, and yes they were protected. Hillsbrad was encircled by walls while Southshore had fortifications around it, and both places had military presence.

Then in Cataclysm Blizzard had enough of Southshore vs Tarren Mill and made the Forsaken outright defeat the Alliance in Hillsbrad.

Yes, when they dropped the blight, which they didn’t have in TBC.

So maybe that would have been the fate of the Alliance-aligned Quel’thalas too. Constant struggles and bloodshed against the Forsaken sending raiding parties against them, little to no Alliance help, until Cataclysm when the Forsaken seize the Ghostlands and possible Eversong too.

Except for the fact that:

1. Teleportation between Stormwind and Silvermoon can be arranged in several ways;
2. Thrall would forbid bloodshed in Quel’Thalas, especially if he got an ultimatum from the Alliance. Since he wants to maintain peace, he’d tell Sylvanas to stop.
3. Sylvanas wanted to deal with the humans of Hillsbrad because they are literally in her backdoor, you can literally see the Ruins of Lordaeron from Hillsbrad, which isn’t the case for Quel’Thalas. As well, Sylvanas wouldn’t waste time trying to genocide her own people when her main goal is vengeance against Arthas, that’d be mongoloid and utterly out of character.

Sooooooooorry if I say no to that as a Blood Elf fan…and no, I won’t take that risk either, with the 90% diminished population.

You sure you’re a blood elf fan? Because you are straight up selling them short and painting them as extremely weak.

Alliance bias.

H… How? Dwarves are renowned warriors and it was a frontal siege for the Forsaken, of course it would be a bloody fight. No one fights as hard and relentlessly as a cornered enemy, especially if said enemy possesses noteworthy weaponry and is battle-hardened.

This is actually the same that happened during the War of the Thorns, with the entire Horde of Kalimdor struggling and taking losses against a few Night Elves (the bulk of the Night Elf army was away, so…)

Night elves had defender advantage and knew the land very well, allowing them to resist through guerrilla warfare. Malfurion personally spearheaded the defense and he is one of the most powerful mortals in the world. This is also before Sylvanas got a massive power boost from the Burning of Teldrassil and Fourth War, making her much weaker than when she fought Bolvar who, by the way, would get owned by Malfurion.

Considering I just told you in Vanilla he alone could go anywhere he wanted in the Eastern Plaguelands under the order of Sylvanas, and he massacred the High Elves in Quel’Lithen Lodge who were near Quel’thalas…

First of all he did not “massacre” the high elves of Quel’Lithien Lodge, as the lodge remains inhabited by a significant high elven population by the time of Cataclysm, and he did not do so alone, as he sent Horde agents to attack the lodge. So stop wanking him as if he were some godly one-man army.

There’s also a big difference between an advanced magical kingdom and an isolated lodge. Again, you sure you’re a blood elf fan?

Yes but then don’t discount the lore of other races (especially the Horde ones) like that.

Like Blizzard did, you mean? Even in the twitter post you linked, he never mentions “lore reasons”, only thematic reasons, which is different.

In fact, thematic reasons is much closer to aesthetics reasons than story reasons.

otherwise Blizzard could have picked any cute race for the Horde (that made more sense than Blood Elves)

Given how blood elves remain the most popular Horde race by far (again, you sure you like them? You have such little faith in their ability to remain popular through the years), No.

They had the right to fear some Undead and reacted by killing them.

No, they had the right to fear every undead as the Forsaken didn’t just appear from nowhere, they themselves were part of the masses that ravaged Lordaeron and Dalaran.

The Blood Elves reacted in another way because Sylvanas was one of their former most important people so they ended up trusting them into the Horde since the Alliance was no longer a valid option for the protection of Quel’thalas.

It’s not like they tried to appeal to the Alliance anyway.

I totally don’t see a problem with this valid lore reason for Blood Elves in the Horde, as much as you don’t like that.

As much as Theron doesn’t like that, you mean, since he tried to rejoin the Alliance once, and rebelled against the Horde government twice, all in the span of a few years.

(since the Alliance cannot be trusted anymore)

Neither can the blood elves really. They somehow managed to rebel against the Horde government not in one, but in two different faction wars. I bet Sylvanas regret helping them after Theron orchestrated the rescue operation of Baine.

but I have learned to deal with it and accept the reasons/consequences, and you will too…

1. You make it sound like it’s so serious when it’s not.
2. I already did 13 years ago, that doesn’t mean I can’t criticise it.

[Jakafo-sylvanas]

It’s a game of WAR. Sometimes the Alliance wins more sometimes the Horde wins more. You can’t simply balance it