I care much less about damage and much more about gameplay. if the spec is not fun to play I couldn’t give a single damn about damage no matter how high it may be.
2 Likes
Absolutely right, but that’s what’s happening right now.
I agree. I’m baffled as to why Outlaw has both RtB and SnD now, along with turning Between the Eyes from a cool punchy ability into a third maintenance buff.
It’s a shame, because I think the new cooldown on RtB works really well and solves a lot of the problems that ability had, but the addition of SnD really messes it up. Ideally we should have one or the other, with an optional talent allowing us to select which we prefer (as was the case in BfA). Outlaw feels very messy right now due to the introduction of SnD and the BtE changes. If SnD went back to being a talent and the BtE change was reverted I think Outlaw would be in a fantastic spot right now gameplay-wise.
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I didn’t like the RNG aspect of RtB so I was glad I could exchange it for SnD with a talent. And in reverse, for those who liked RtB more than SnD they could just pick another talent and keep RtB. Having both is very clunky with a high built up to do some actual damage. Outlaw was actually really good before the Pre-patch changes and perhaps only the poisons and the Shiv ability are a nice addition to the spec. But by forcing players to use both RtB and SnD and by removing that which was fun and great about BtE Blizzard ruined it in my opinion. The unpruning concept may be nice in some cases and may work here and there. But it can also go too far. I actually liked having different distinct specs. The people who complain about how all classes feel the same are also often the ones whining about specs being too different. It seems to me people don’t exactly know what they want in a lot of cases. It seems there indeed was a core of truth when Blizzard said “you think you do but you don’t”. Perhaps no in the way it was intended at the moment. But in general in the overal game and the community, I think it does apply very well.
First, that doesnt make any sense. With your proposition, nothing is ever broken in any game because those who say something is broken are a minority and even so least affected by it. So everything is ‘okay’ at any given time based on that logic.
But in reality, minmaxers of all sorts (including hardcore raiders) constitute the minority in gaming across all games. Save but a few like Eve Online.
Regardless of the opinions about them, so called casual gamers constitute the majority. And breaking their gameplay as such is not something beneficial to the community in the long run. That is before the fact that the changes actually gimp many other playstyles.
Let me put on my occasional raider hat:
Halving the damage of BtE halved makes it less desirable to use, making removing its stun to sort out minor problems it introduces in raids with stun and pulling pointless. Having more minor buffs to keep up makes the spec a chore, not anything remotely fun.
And pvper hat:
Removing ranged stun while also reducing the ranges basically gimps the most fluid Outlaw/Combat spec Wow ever had. For the first time this spec (and rogues) were more or less able to fight in the open like a swashbuckler or a pirate. Now they are again gimped.
Finally the casual gamer hat:
All im doing is keeping up 4-5 different small percentage of bonuses. Where’s the swashbuckler in this class, where is the rogue? This doesnt feel like im playing anything like what i was told i would be playing as an outlaw.
…
However you look, the changes have kicked the spec in the balls. The problem is that this was not just one spec in a game with a zillion specs: This spec was the first actual swashbuckler gameplay which Wow was able to implement. It was ‘Wow, this really feels like im playing a swashbuckler or a pirate’.
Now its ‘Hey, look, im keeping 3-5 different minor bonuses up! How fun is that’.
4 Likes
Min/maxers like to turn games into Excel spreadsheets. All the changes they desire inevitably gravitate towards flushing your entire screen with nothing but numbers and equations. Bars and parsers keeping check of everything. Not a single percentage wasted. And its all about DPS and HPS. Nothing else matters to them. Gameplay and fun be damned. Got to squeeze out that 1% extra damage or healing so the boss can be downed in 5 seconds less time. Any less than that and they rage like spoiled children and demand their candy to be delivered immediately and without hesitation while all the ‘filthy casuals’ grovel at their feet. It’s not even about talent or skill anymore. All that matters are numbers, higher and higher until all has turned into a boring slab of dry math. A grey mass of sameness, devoid of all individuality, personal taste and expression. Automised and optimised to perfection, all humanity erased. That may sound extreme, but the more I hear min/maxers talk the more I see this future ahead of us in WoW and gaming in general. Any and all developers of any game from any company should stop listening to these people right now.
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P.S. This here shows how idiotic min/maxing can be. Not only can min/maxing ruin the game for the vast majority of people, it’s also not even necessary. Skill trumps gear and numbers. Always.
Since I apperantly can’t post links, look for:
Raiding in blues: The Undergeared Chronicles
It’s a thread on MMO-champion.
A guild that was dedicated to clearing as many 10 man Normal raid fights they possibly could, while being severly undergeared and lacking high end buffs, gems, enchants etc. during WOTLK.
So, min/maxers, can us Outlaw Rogues please get our BtE stun and our choice between SnD qnd RtB back? Because it’s not the way certain abilities work, nor is it your gear and ilevel that truly matters. It’s skill.
Sub still in S teir and Assassin is A teir the outlaw needs to be A teir aswell ?
And aside from randomly complaining about Rogue spec tiers, what are you bringing to the community ?
What do you base that on? Gameplay or DPS output? Spare me the DPS output, I just want the gameplay.
3 videos Sub is S teir in all 3 
Forget my previous comment, I realised you were replying to Yuiki and his tier list comment, right?
I don’t like the idea of tier lists. I just want to play the class and spec I think is most fun to play. And it would be nice if everyone else would do that. Twitch/Youtube streamer tier lists be damned. What do YOU like to play, regardless of performance in DPS parsers and listing in tier lists? Be an individual and make up your own mind. That’s what i’d like to see.
2 Likes
my 3 videos tells diff
That is correct !
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u remeber the moust dealing damage ablity in game ever what existed back in 7.2.0 ?
Well it will be back in 9.2.0 
Have you checked out my link? It’s the best tier list ever made. 
Also, just a hint… Nobody cares about your most damage dealing ability from 7.2.0. I know, it’s hard to grasp right? Metaslaves are a mindless mass that religiously follows 1% percent of the entire WoW community.
The tier list I posted is a troll list. That guy basically says, play the class YOU want to play, regardless of how “optimal” the class is. Stop min/maxing and start having FUN. That’s the message.
Rogue is fun …
give rogues some love Blizzard by stop nerfing them …
i want SL to be a Legion 2.0 not a BFA 2.0 …
Whatever is fun to play entirely depends on you as an individual. There are people who dislike Demun Hunter alot. They dislike it because it requires little effort to perform well with. The amount of AoE and utility is also considered overkill by a lot of people. Should that bother you? Not in the slightest. Play the class because you like to play it. Even if Outlaw Rogue did the least damage of all classes, even below tanks and healers, I’d still play it. But only if the gameplay remains FUN. When the fun is being pulled out of Outlaw Rogue I’ll speak up and try to make it fun again. I place gameplay above DPS output without even thinking about it. And if I face a class in PVP that generally performs better than mine I’ll try come up with creative ways to overcome that difference. I’d do the same for any class. Aslong as the difference in overal performance is somewhere between 5% and 10% and does’t get worse than that, the difference is still beatable and requires players to be creative to overcome the odds.
Don’t be a metaslave. Be an individual. Forge your own path and create your own unique style of play. Forget tier lists. Do your own thing.
1 Like