Dude, we was fighting premades for months on end. I just told you. Even when fighting premades, knowing we was going to lose, we never talked about losing or letting them win. It was more rewarding, felt more rewarding, to stall and defend hard, after 1h queue. Having a 1h+ game after 1h+ queue is nothing. If we would have had instant queue most people wouldn’t have bothered.
And here people claim that alliance does that in EVERY AV, talk about losing and letting Hored win, but they still blame the map. When the map haven’t changed. No logic in that.
The only logic. The only logic that make sense and can be fixed.
You guys blame a 14y old map for a new unique situation that is even new within Classic it self. There is no logic in that. And even if it was true, its pointless and the map cant be fixed. But the queue and reward system can.
Alliance used to win something like 80% of all AV in Classic, this Classic.
No, in the AVs I talk about here, Alliance was dominating horde with 300-400 HK and had not lost any GY or bunker. But we have practiced against premades for months and know if we defend hard, Alliance with their instant queue will break when it’s not worth it to fight for a slow win. Literally every time that works.
But you are LITERALLY losing 100% of the games by letting Horde pass without defending…
I am playing both factions in Classic dude. We are having 100% loss rate for Alliance. That is what I wrote. And I win 100% of AV vs English Alliance Pugs. I have lost 2 times against Russian premades the last few months. I would like Blizzard to fix this broken queue and reward system.
Ok so you think it’s the map.
Let me ask you this.
Alliance used to win around 80% of all AV games in Classic.
Horde tactics. When Alliance had a high winrate the first few days (maybe you could say the first week) all Horde were doing is rushing north and not intercepting Alliance or defending/recaping IB. Once they started doing that Alliance pug winrate tanked. So yea basically what changed is Horde actually started using the map advantage that they have.
Horde defend for a long time. Is that the tactics you speak of?
Why does that work? How can defending making on faction win 100%? Think about that.
You can’t honestly see that the reward and queue system is the issue with that? Alliance stop pushing after a while when it’s not worth it to continue. You can’t see that?
Not really what I said. Horde just started using the fact they have a headstart and can intercept Alliance at Balinda then push SH since defending IB is so easy and even if it’s capped by some Alliance that make it through it’s extremely easy to recap for the Horde. You honestly can’t see how much of an advantage the map gives the Horde? You really can’t see that?
If only there was like… A trinket or something that could like. Teleport you back to your base.
I guess it takes more than '100’s" of battles for you to unlock tho.
With the amount of people “questing” in that cave everyone should have it though
In all seriousness though unless you have the trinket equiped when you die at SP you’re not going to recall before Horde are already on top of the recall spot or at least over the bridge.
Yeah but you’d think recalling would be easier than fighting your way back over the bridge. I do think it’s funny the argument for Allies not really defending is that it’s too hard to cross the bridge, as if we can use our trinkets to teleport into your base.
And before you go there, they fixed the backdoor into your base also.
Sure thing… because it’s easy to get 30 Alliance players to all have the trinket and all teleport back at the exact same time in order to have a chance at defending.
When in reality maybe 2-3 Alliance players every 30 seconds stop what they are currently doing and use their trinket to just get wiped.
I dunno man, I’ve seen coordinated calls for recalling and AoE/Wiping Allies in the Horde base, 20-30 Horde’s doing it at the same time.
But I guess it’s the map imbalance making it so the Horde can coordinate that and the Alliance cannot.
Ok.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Well that’s not really a map issue is it? And yes it’s extremely annoying to be recalling back with only 1 or 2 other people achieving little or nothing on defence. But again that’s not a map issue.
We was fighting Alliance premades for months. We never even got close to Balinda or SH GY for months on end. All we did was to defend IB GY, we lost it, and we continued to defend it, and we defended FW GY, and lost it, and we defended the base until we lost it and we defended boss until we lost.
That usually took 30min against a really good Alliance preamde, but around 45-50min into the game something happened aginst the weaker premades, we could start to push back. After 1h it was almost a guaranteed win, even when we had not capped a single GY or Bunker and was all stuck in south. The Alliance just /afk or went inactive. This happened a lot. And when I say /afk, I literally mean /afk. You could sometimes see 20 Allaince vanish for the whole battle, even whey they had not lost a single GY or Bunked and was outside Horde base.
Horde started to defend HARD, and continued to defend HARD until most motivated and good Alliance left AV completely and went to WSG/AB. It was not worth it to play AV anymore if you had any interest in Ranking Points when Horde defended HARD.
Now you have mostly passive and unmotivated Alliance doing AV and they don’t care about winning, they care about getting as much honor and rep as possible in as short time as possible. They push ONCE, and when that fail, they go passive. Every game. People admit it here on the forum that after the first push they talk about losing. horde never does that, not even against preamdes. We defend hard, we know that Alliance usually break when we defend hard.
Yes, Horde have the advantage at the first half of the game. Alliance have the advantage in the second half of the game. I have said this many times.
But what really is the huge advantage for Horde is the long queue and reward system. This is what breaks Alliance and makes them lose 100% of all games.
Surely not even you believe the map makes one side lose even close to 100%?
And that, to you, doesn’t suggest a certain level of ignorance from Alliance PvP’ers in AV? Like… At all?
Back in the early days when you guys were exploiting the queue to essentially premade 30-40 people the same AV I saw the Horde do coordinated priestfears+mage AoE recalls fairly often, of course it didn’t always work, but sometimes it did and we wiped them in our base.
Yes bad premades dropped games regularly. In fact bad premades still drop many many games in AB and WSG even against pugs. I however have never ever seen a game where a pug Alliance would just give up after managing to take IB even if it took them a while to push past TP. Usually what happens is that you get stalled there while 10 or 15 Horde push north.
Yes, Horde have the advantage at the first half of the game. Alliance have the advantage in the second half of the game.
Not really though. Horde have an advantage in the middle and once they take that Alliance is stuck behind the IW choke at least until SP is taken. So in the second half of the game Horde also have an advantage since Alliance is stuck on their side of the map while Horde gets easy access to 2 wing commanders and the summon boss to help them push.
I have won several AVs against full premades where we was able to ninja cap the flag and wipe them on boss. We had taken no other GYs or Bunkers. Alliance was dominating us from start, crushing us, but after that wipe half their team would /afk. It was glorious. I miss the Alliance premades in a way. It was fun to beat cheaters as the underdog by defending for over 1h until they break. And by break I mean, they leave and queue for next AV that is more rewarding.
I will never forget the last premade we faced, was last month, a Russian premade. I would spam /rw over and over, DEFEND SF and IB! THEY WILL BREAK SOON! I spanned that for 30min, ALL horde defended, EVEYRONEW, and after 30min, Alliance vanished. Half their team did an actual /afk, the other waited in cave. We had not even come close to balinda and SH GY before that.
At the end of the day, the points made in the original video still apply.
It doesn’t matter which side defends the most, it doesn’t matter about premades, who recalls the most, the queue, the rewards etc. The video clearly explains the effects of the Horde’s starting cave and choke points, and nerfs made to NPC’s/bosses in Classic compared to Vanilla.
This is why the map gets changed in TBC and the Horde cave gets moved South. This is when the tables turn and it’s all about a rush to the opposing factions general’s. This is when there’s no defending required.
No it’s not. It’s because the reward system changed and started to use a limited resource system and for that you need a different map design… You are not comparing the same thing here.
Well, in a sense you are. You hit the head on the nail there. Classic is in fact a point based resource system also. Killing last boss is not the main objective, and that’s why the map become unbalanced. It’s the reward system that is broken in Classic, not the map. If both factions was fighting to WIN, we wouldn’t have this problem. the main issue is that the faction with instant queue can get 80% of the rewards in 20% of the time. No one want’s to spend 80% more time to get 20% more rewards with an instant queue.
