I have never seen that. I have never seen Horde say “let them win” or anything like that. We was fighting and losing against premades for weeks on end and was fighting and defending until the bitter end, over and over, day after day, stalling as much as possible. Having 1h+ queue is REALLY motivating. When we was fighting premades chat was spammed and raid warning popped over and over where to go and where to defend even after 1h of defending and not capping anything.
I can tell you when I play on my alliance alts, I don’t care. I just want some rep and be done.
I was not talking about AV premades, I was talking about being graveyard farmed.
Stalling premades was a viable strategy for horde at that time, because many premades just let horde win if the game took too long.
But it’s not the case now, since there are no alliance premades or rankers so people don’t really mind a long AV.
However being blocked behind SH choke point means the game is practically over, so some people just go afk and other farm honor for a while, because there is nothing else they can do to prevent the outcome.
So even if all alliance players would fight until the bitter end, over and over, day and day (and believe me nowadays many of them actually do), with the horde current meta and the unfair map design the winrate would be exactly the same.
And in a reverse situation, after a while if horde would find himself in a similar impossible situation they’d do the same regardless of their queue time.
Which would actually reduce horde’s and extend alliance’s queue time then alliance could come to the forums and lecture horde that winrate is all about queue time and lack of will.
Sure, premades isn’t a thing anymore, but now you’re being stupid. The players who focus on PvP will make the largest contributions in a PvP BG and on the alliance those players are NOT in AV, while on horde they are. How is that “not an issue anymore”? The reason they stopped going AV was that when they couldn’t premade, and win 100%, it wasn’t good honor anymore (because with short queues WSG/AB is so much better). Just admit that queue time does have an impact. I’m tired of trying to explain it to you…
Not even remotely close to what I meant. Nice strawman tho. I mean that the side who has the short queue will try to play rush tactics. Like I wrote earlier, the alliance would have the advantage if the horde had short queues and wanted to play rush games. Well, yes what you say is also true, longer queue makes you more likely to want to prolong the game by defending (Because, why not? You’re not getting into a new game instantly anyway, and maybe you don’t have anything better to do…).
Horde can’t make premades anyway because of long queue, otherwise it wouldn’t have been an issue to begin with. Horde would have made their own premades and everything would have been fine.
Yes, with short queues easier to accept fast games.
However today alliance players who sign up to AV accept long games regardless the queue time.
Because queue time is not affecting this. If alliance queue time would be longer rankers still would not sign up to AV, because it’s still not a good honor / hour compared to WSG and AB.
And if horde queue time would be shorter horde still would not play rush meta even if it would be better honor / hour to them.
When horde started to play the turtle meta their queue time was about 15-20 min. Now it is 1-2 hours. Would they give up their 100% win tactics if queues time would go back to 20 min?
Certainly not.
Of course one of the main reason alliance lose so much is that less PvP oriented people sign up to AV, so teams are not balanced.
But again: that is a consequence not a cause.
If horde would not play the SH turtle meta or the map would not support it this much, then AV would be much better honor for alliance rankers so they would not have abandoned AV.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming horde for playing the best tactics. Alliance would do the same. The problem is that the map gives this tactics so much advantage that a regular alliance pug cannot counter it even if the same amount of rankers would be in both teams.
Yes, queue times do affect it. I mean queue times in general, including WSG and AB. With short queues in WSG and AB the rankers barely go AV even with 50% win rate because the honor is so bad in AV compared to the others. So, most of the rankers would abandon AV anyway, at least to a larger extent than on horde where the difference is less. Also, 20 min is not a short queue time…
The only thing that they should have done was putting in the old iteration of AV, the one with battles lasting hours. It would have fixed a lot of map imbalances and we’d have far less leechers and afkers.
If you can outpace a faction with a 60% movement speed mount against 100% then there is seriously something wrong.
Alliance already goes in with the mentality of losing and hoping to grab as much honor and rep as humanly possible, because the map is just bad.
Ideas are all good and such, but the fundament where Blizzard based it on has massive flaws which benefit 1 faction only. It is literally the 0.001% WR vs 1 hour queue.
Yes Alliance does have AFKers, but they just prove the facts that AV is literally unwinnable after Ally losing SH, that choke after Iceheart Bunker favors not suprised at all the horde once more. They could just not go that route and attack alliance from the top or pincer them.
For the record, Horde was giving up games intentionally when the queue times were below 10 minutes, back during the first few days of AV. Queue times increased pretty fast due to Alliance premades becoming more popular (i.e. fewer people queuing solo and instead only queuing in that organized fashion, meaning less “injections” into the matchmaking which was needed in order to match people more often), and presumably more and more people following the trend of BGs which meant more Horde players entering the queues after a day or two. Wednesday and Thursday are popular raid days after all.
While Alliance did the exact opposite, fewer and fewer were queuing for AV at random times because premades were rapidly growing in popularity.
It was actually because the queue times increased that Horde had no choice but to aim for whatever honor they could, which is when the delay tactic started happening in order to burn a bunker or two before inevitably losing vs. the tryhard premades that were there since day 1, and then they noticed the “casual” premades would lose to the delay tactic so it just led to that tactic solidifying itself and evolving ever since then.
So… Well… One of the things Alliance used to whine about, even during the premade times, was that Horde should just “give up” instead of dragging out the games. But of course, because of the queue times then that was just a stupid suggestion.
So if you want the Horde players to adopt a rush meta instead, then queue into AV more. Make the queue times instant for the Horde. Then you’ll get your rushed games where it’s more random who wins, because quicker games with instant queues is far better rewards per hour than dragging out a single game for so long just to get everything you can out of it.
Horde will probably still win though, because… You know… They still win in the PvP because Alliance kinda… you know… suck outside of premades. At least they’ll probably go for quick wins instead of slow wins like that.
Queue times increased when most Alliance PvE players reached exalted after few weeks, got their epics and became uninterested in playing AV anymore (hence being pve players), so only Alliance rankers remained and those few who joined the rep farming later. Premades were indeed present from day 1, but only few tryhard rankers did it and did not play any significant role until horde started to play turtle meta.
After that it was a self-accelerating process: because of the horde turtle meta and the map imbalance, Alliance rankers had no choice but to join a premade, because pug vs pug winrate dropped drastically because an unorganized random group of players have no chance to counter the horde turtle.
So the increased queue time and the alliance premades was because of the horde turtle meta and the map imbalance, not the other way around.
I know it’s more comforting to play both the winner and the victim, but please try not to distort reality.
We both know that horde would not give up their granted wins just because the queue is shorter, because they started turtling way before it was beneficial for them regarding honor / hour.
And I totally understand it to be honest, because people want to play not brainlessly farm some numbers.
No, it was because of the premades. Hate to break it to you, but they exploded in popularity after just a few days. Not weeks. Don’t know why it took you weeks to hear of it.
Uhm no, as already established, it was because of the HPH and the increased queue times. When it stayed below 10 minutes the first two days, people were literally rushing through the games because going in & out of AV was much better rewards per hour than actually trying to win.
Horde queue times increased because games started to last longer since people stopped rushing and because Alliance PvE players were done with the grind faster than Horde ones (because of shorter queues) not because of premades. And people started joining premades en masse because the winrate of pugs tanked after the first few days. That’s why they “exploded in popularity”.
Please just read the horde forum posts from those days.
I am not talking about when the first premade ever appeared but when premades became a must for any alliance pvp-ers and that was after the horde meta changed to turtle.
Horde time obviously increased from the very beginning since there are more pvp oriented players in horde, so as soon as alliance pve players started to leave, the queue difference increased even more.
However only tryhard rankers did premades at the first few weeks.
Also those premades had strict conditions, you could not join below rank 10, without proper gear and 100% mount and you had to be available at least 4-6 hours / day.
So as soon as rush tactics did not work with pugs, most people only then started to play in premades to counter the new horde meta, and those “plebs premades” had less restrictions, actually a 100% mount and not afk-ing was more or less enough to join.
And these premades were the most common, not the rank10+ ones (obviously).
What are you talking about? I’ve joined premades in the first week. Because the pug winrate tanked after a few days. But I see that, as always, you’re more interested in making hostile remarks and petty insults than actually discussing anything Beware.
