He meant that all PvP gears with the different stats were available at the PvP Vendors during MoP. You didn’t have to hope for a piece of gear to drop, hope it was the piece of gear you wanted, hope it had the stats you wanted on it and also, hope it had a socket on it.
Essentially, you could work towards getting a specific item without the multiple layers of RNG.
so no then. This is a completely unrelated statement. As it happens, WoD was not just a turn to worse for PvP but for PvE as well. The game as a whole got worse, starving many players of content. Both communities toolk a severe hit at that time.
True, but for the better part of a decade frost mages ate arms and fury warriors for breakfast. Rogues were negated by Tanks simply because they were tanks. SL-SL Locks terrorized Arenas for an entire expansion. This isn’t one class being strongest in this patch, another in the next. For years PvP was in many cases purely Paper-Rock-Scissors.
as an aside, i never said PvP doesn’t matter. If people wanna PvP, they should obviously do it. But claiming it is the biggest community or that it was blizzards priority is nonsense, especially considering that you have absolutely no proof.
Uhm, no youre wrong there? That might be the case for vanilla.
in BC all classes and specs (except for tanks ofc) were able to reach gladiator, you can see that on BC private servers. I dont think you have much PvP experience sadly. A warrior in vanilla can easily beat a frost mage, if he has gear and pops a fap.
Yes WoD was bad for everyone true. But legion? Nah pretty good PvE and same thing with bfa. 100% PvE focus, yet everyone hates Island expitions, warfronts, etc. People even start to dislike the mythic+ spam.
PvP is rock paper scissors if you didnt know how to play your class.
And again PvE is rock-paper-scissors aswell. You need the correct setup to beat raids. It’s the same concept.
There used to be a whole community of people on servers, outside Stormwind/Ogrimmar, dueling all day. grouping up for arenas/rbgs, starting guilds together making friends. Guess what? That community is 100% dead. If you look at twitch, theres like, 5 PvP streamers left, Venruki, pikaboo etc. There used to be so many big iconic WoW pvp players. But guess what? They’re all gone from the game and the community.
Nothing beats playing a bad class/spec, and still being skilled enough to beat that OP frost mage/SL lock. Now it’s not about skill anymore, just look at the DH class for example, a class so dumbed down ANYONE can play it to 1800 rating by litteraly using a PvE rotation in arena. PvP is NOW an afterthought in wow since Mop/Wod, and the game is consistenly getting worse and worse. And getting less and less popular on twitch etc, which is a bad thing because no new players will join the game, due to so low exposure. Blizzard is hoping to only attract e-girls and weirdos who wants to farm transmogs and buy store mounts. Instead of people who want to play the game and improve their skill.
I get the feeling you’re working your logic backwards. For starters, being an afterthought isn’t a bad thing if it results in a working system and for all it’s flaws and problems, the “oldschool” PvP worked.
The game was slower and by extention a lot more methodical back then, allowing players who really grasped their class and it’s tools to overcome imbalances. But if equally geared and skilled people got into a duel, met in the arena/BG the outcome was clear in 90% of cases due to their class and specc.
I’m not talking about an arm warrior in Naxx off-gear and Might of Menethil 1shotting a mage off his mount but a genuine match.
I mean youre not disagreeing with me anymore? You legit just made the point I was making at first.
The only thing im trying to counter argue is the people saying PvP doesn’t matter and blizzard shouldn’t care about it cus wow is a ‘‘PvE game not a PvP game’’
A point which has now become true since WoD and the game is only getting worse and worse, and less popular because of it.
And no 90% of the time PvP was about skill, not class and gear. Except in some odd situations like in Wotlk when DK’s for example just got released and were grossly OP.
But that situation is in the game again now in the form of DH’s and corruption gear. And blizzard doesn’t intend to fix it because they no longer care about PvP, they just care about PvE, and they want everyone to be balanced in PvE. Thats why there’s so much RNG gear that decides how high you are on the DPS meters. If everyone is good, then no one is good.
Those people are living in their bubbles, nvm them. Having only 21.3 IQ might encourage people to say such things.
Strong disagree.
The 2-faction system in itself is there to facilitate a ‘war’ between the 2 factions, which PvP would in a player-agency sense best represent.
Just because the progression system and consequent extensions in PvP activities took a long time to implement is irrelevant, considering the rushed nature of Vanilla WoW’s release.
edit: bad grammar
This <3
10 chars
I never said it doesn’t matter. All I said was that PvP balancing was always an afterthought. Blizz has always balanced PvE first and then figured out how to make it work in PvP. That doesn’t mean that it hasn’t worked well for years.
And i don’t agree that the majority of Players are PvP players. Nor are they PvE players. the Majority of the community, at least in my opinion, is smack in the middle. They do/did both.
Well then I dont really get what youre trying to point out. As I said 100% balance is not the focus of games ever, as no metas should be 100% fixed as that becomes boring. It changes all the time, and it’s up to the players to use their skill to overcome.
Again look at league of legends, 100% PvP game, never been 100% balanced. It’s impossible. Are you gonna say PvP is also an afterthought in league because of this?
Reason for that has more to do with the challenges that PvP balancing presents. As in, it’s much harder to fully understand the full range of effects that a balance change could introduce in a PvP setting.
For example, you could buff rogue damage in PvE to make them more competitive, and you could reasonably expect it to have little effect on anything except rogue desirability in the meta comps you run in m+ or mythic raids.
You buff rogue damage in pvp, and you could (hypothetically speaking) give a huge buff to, say, priests through the buff, because they synergize with the class, or to warriors, because they’re the “natural counter” and the influx of rogues means a better meta for warriors.
A) I don’t take other games with completely different core mechanics as a measuring stick for WoW.
B) The imbalance in LoL is semi-intentional, Riot Games as said so themselves more than once.
C) In a game with adjustable stats through gear, perfect Balance in impossibe.
However, the original point i made about PvP is an extention of what i said about gear. That beginning with WoD the dmg you do is less reliant on what you do but on what proccs you wear. Interestingly enough, that’s the same timeframe you pointed out that the PvP community took a big hit. This accellerated through Legion and BfA. Both the fact that your gear does your dmg for you as well as the diminishing PvP Community. (PvE as well but let’s table that)
That alone suggests that blizz balances PvE first. PvP is undeniably about player skill, yet the gear you get tries it’s hardest to remove skill from the equation. These concepts are simply incompatible. Yet Blizz keeps implementing and pushing them. I mean even Corruptions are active in Arenas. Looking at that, how can you say that PvP balancing is any priority to Blizzard
??? What are you even saying, youre the one talking about balancing not me
You were the one who got upset about me saying PvP balancing is an afterthought.
No? I get upset about people saying PvP is an afterthought, not balancing.
I said 10x times now that balance is not something you can have in PvP scenarios
Read what Wwhelp wrote, he’s 100% right.
So by this logic, mythic+ is even more of an afterthought, because Arenas have been in the game for many years before mythic+ made it in right? And LFR, it must be an afterthought as well, because of the same reason. And dailies, because there were no dailies to begin with. And every single raid except for Onyxia and Molten Core, and most dungeons in the game…
That’s the problem, that it was better in the past so we know it can be. All it needs is to be like it was, not something innovative.
Last time I did PvP was TBC arena. Any comp could work, every class felt strong in it’s own right, but no class was Frustrating to play against. Blizz DID balance classes with PvP on mind too. Even then, WoW PvP was considered too random because of crit, trinkets, racials.
Now I have no idea how you can take PvP seriously. BfA WoW is purely a PvE game, and rather good one at that. BfA Arena? Don’t make me laugh. And the funniest are those, who still think their rating means something and that they have any modicum of skill 
I still kinda enjoy random BG’s tho. BfA shot the system in the knee, but it’s still alive. While Arena is completely dead for some years now
I wish I could craft pvp power gear… losing ratings to people 20 ilvls higher than me makes me sad.
It is like Im forced to play pvp to have great essences for pve so we r all same in stupid position. And what is even worst I need to go on Alliance side in bg because Horde is doomed. 
So toxic dude!! I dont like to play your precious pvp but Im forced to have blood of enemy etc
And ofc I like pve player dont have a lot knowledge about pvp because I dont LIKE it! Know some basic but need to do it . Because Blizzard say so lol