Literally an alliance plant meant to undermine the war efforts of the Horde. When I saw the letter where she talks about giving Gilneas back to Genn I couldn’t believe it. Literally my worst fears has become reality. Calia is like Baine only 10 times worse. If Sylvanas would still be in charge she would have moved into Gilneas city and claimed the land for herself. Literally Forsaken are not allowed to have pride in their victories against the alliance while the blue team threw a big celebration after the successful attack on Zandalar.
With how things are going. It is safe to say now that the Forsaken are a ruined race who can never be repaired. From now on, all we get for lore will be appeasement politics towards the alliance. The age of shame has begun. Calia destroyed one of my favorite races for all time and I am very sad about it.
Seriously, is the end of war in Gilneas and the hopeful return of the kingdom to the Alliance is such a threat to the Forsaken? Lol …
The Alliance has lost most of its original Seven Kingdoms. Lordaeron? Undead/Horde, then plagued, recently became Horde again. Alterac? Destroyed, Ogre-affiliated. Dalaran? Neutral, all accepted, including Horde. Stromgarde? Contested between the Alliance and the Horde (although we’re being told that lore-wise it’s Alliance now). Gilneas? Plagued by the Forsaken. Luckily, we got Kul’Tiras back and we’ve always had Stormwind, thanks the Light.
It won’t hurt if the Alliance gets back a third kingdom. And hopefully in-game, not just lore-wise.
Destroyed…by the Alliance themselves, so it makes sense it can never return as a Kingdom…even the Syndacate doesn’t want its return, especially in the Alliance anymore… and even if they betrayed the Alliance in the Second War, certainly the Alliance had no true necessity (or right) to dismantle the Kingdom of Alterac and kill their people like they did, there were other ways…)
Pretty sure we earned that right working for Khadgar and Dalaran in general several times, sometimes even giving to them artifacts of powers like Felo’melorn in Legion despite it clearly belongs to the Blood Elves and Quel’thalas. And despite incidents like the Purge of Dalaran under Jaina. Also specifically, the quests about the Forsaken fighting the Kirin Tor in Silverpine and Hillsbrad were deemed non-canon because of an oversight by the developers.
The city itself is Alliance, the territory around it (countryside of the Kingdom) might not be, or not all of it at least. But the capital is the important one I think.
Well, it could be reclaimed by the Alliance next “soon”. Erevien is against this simply because he thinks the Worgen and Alliance can use it as a staging ground for another invasion of Lordaeron and the Forsaken soon, and the Alliance will probably attack first in the next faction war anyway…
It’s more than two right now, actually. But anyway, the idea of the Seven Kingdoms was completely dead at the start of WoW. Metzen and Co. had outright declared (in the manual of the game too, I think) that Stormwind was the very last hope and bastion of humanity. Only recently Blizzard probably changed their minds starting to give the Alliance more of the old Kingdoms, but originally the idea was to have only Stormwind anyway. So any other of the 7 Kingdoms besides Stormwind that is officially reclaimed by the Alliance is already a plus in itself, to be fair.
Then it’s funny how the Menethil royal family managed to screw up the people of Lordaeron not just as they were living Humans but as Undead too (both Scourge for Arthas and Forsaken for Calia)…the children of King Terenas are truly the worst and he as a King too, for giving them a bad education and I’ m not sure how the Forsaken can keep its tomb still honored and intact in the Undercity after all his family did to them after all…
Well…in Erevien’s opinion she completely ruined them for being an Alliance usurper…so I guess she’s almost on the levels of Arthas himself…
UNLESS Calia will get a dark and evil behaviour like Sylvanas and will start waging war against the Alliance again, in this case I think we would see Erevien praising her…and after all “the crown of Light will bring only darkness”…if this is not about Turalyon, then it’s really about Calia in my opinion…
Can’t that be a reference to Pelagos? I hope it’s not, I don’t want to have to go back to the Shadowlands ever again.
Encourage them to defect the Horde and cause all those present at the meeting with their living human relatives in Arathi to be killed. She created dissensions within a united race with no solution to give them when she did it. Now that she’s a member of the new Desolate Council, the first thing she wants to do is give back land controlled by the Forsaken to the Alliance and they don’t have anything to gain from that. She should focus on doing things for the Forsaken, not against them.
Oh I guess someone here has either not payed much attention while doing the quest or was (once again) on a pretty unhealthy high dosis of copium. As you clearly should have seen, the forsaken don’t have any interest in war at the moment. They want to rebuild their destroyed and contaminated homeland and find a new identity after accepting the truth that no more banshee solo queen will lead them. Also pretty funny that you automatically assume just because some forsaken characters (of course the ones who get the spotlight) have a “dark and cynical” nature that this’d mean that the nation as a whole acts the same. I assume that most of them just want to live in peace so they have an easier time bearing the undead’s curse. (Just to remind you in case you forgot about this, it was even talked about in WC3 )
I’d base my theory on the fact that there are (of course never shown) also civilists who have regular jobs in the forsaken society and are probably happy to just “get along”. Of course this is only a thought from me. Headcanon to be precise but not unrealistic imo.
She “encouraged” them to defect, after she was told to “be ready” by Parquall Fintallas.
I agree that it was beyond stupid for Calia to reveal herself like that, but she didn’t cause it, she was merely caught up in the situation. If anything, Calia wanted to help and did these things for the Forsaken.
“They are Zombies, they are supposed to be dark and cruel!” That’s all some people seem to see in them.
All the Forsaken civilians we can interact with in game seem to share that dark, grim mindset and an understandable hatred for the living. The idea that some Forsaken yearned for inner peace was only brought during BFA with Calia, it’s not something this race is known to have pursued before. This new take came with her and I have only seen it echoed in Lilian after her pro Horde/Forsaken 180 during BFA as well. I wouldn’t generalize it to most Forsaken but like you, it’s more of a personal thought. If the lore ends up saying that this is what all Forsaken want, that’s what it’ll be.
Which was a very bad idea and justifies what Hellaynnea was saying about Arthas and her.
Not what I asked or said. The idea that most Forsaken haven’t made peace with their condition is a large misconception in my opinion. That’s why Calia and her Light are not needed.
I never understood why Blizzard didn’t give them more depth. That some / many among hate the humans for abandoning them is fine, but… there have to be others who remember the old lives. When they proposed the Arathi meeting in the novel, I was like “FINALLY someone remembered that these guys were once humans!”
I have no problem with stereotypes or clichés in Fantasy stories, but to me, the Forsaken (and Sylvanas) always were the most boring faction, since Blizzard rarely added depth to them and “vengeance” seemed to be their whole purpose.
tl;dr I always thought that the Forsaken had a lot of potencial, but unfortunately, Blizzard decided to keep them one-dimensional.
“Wanting to help them” was a bad idea? It was Sylvanas who saw them as “arrows in her quiver”, who sacrificed them and left them without a leader - who created the necessity for another Desolate Council in the first place.
Is that so? Then what about the whole quest to find a way to stop the decay of the Forsaken? If they were at peace with the “natural way of things”, why even bother and not just… go extinct?
There is no reason for the Forsaken to wish to go back to their old lives once they’ve made peace with the fact that it was impossible. There’s a reason so few of them wanted to attend the meeting in Arathi in the first place and that the reunion with their living relatives didn’t go very well for all of them. Rejecting their past because the present rejected them first is a core element of the Forsaken identity, and the reason why some of them like Putress gave up on their old names to make up new ones.
Aside from that, I think you’re omitting the fact that the constant aggressions the Forsaken have endured at the hands of the Scarlet Crusade fanatics is another reason for them to be wary of the living. These wackos never bothered to make the difference between the Scourge and Forsaken and as long as they’re around (because yes, they are), the Forsaken will never be at peace.
Arthas wanted to help his people when he purged Stratholme and set off for Northrend. Was that a good idea? The motivations do not make a leader good, their actions and their consequences do.
You guys seriously need to relax with that overused quote to tarnish Sylvanas. Any great military leader thinks the same way to some extent yet you don’t seem to have any problem with that. That’s what she used to think of her rangers when she was still alive too and it’s ultimately what allowed the Forsaken to be united and survive what they had to go through once the control Arthas had over them weakened. Without what all Sylvanas has done for the Forsaken (that she really had affection for no matter how much some people like to twist that), most of them would have just killed themselves for good and there would have been nothing left for Calia to take.
There is a difference between physical challenges and inner peace. You don’t seem to grasp the meaning of the latter and that this was used as the element that set Calia appart from the real Forsaken in BFA. She’s presented as some sort of messiah that brings a solution to a problem that didn’t exist in lore before she was raised into undeath.
I have one question though. I realize that I have been debating these questions with two Pandarens from the Alliance, but do you guys even play Forsaken or Horde for that matter? Not there to judge, I’m just trying to understand why the most fervent Calia defenders are players from the Alliance who don’t play the race she’s supposed to represent. I always post on forums with Nedra but my main is a Blood Elf warlock since TBC.
No idea why that matters, but if you prefer that background… And yes, I play on both sides, Horde and Alliance (Even though that seems to be too much for certain Blood Elves in these forums )
I’m glad it does. I never hid being pro-Sylvanas before her plan appeared to be a big ol’ Blizzard MacGuffin. I hate the way the Shadowlands work and would have gladly set it on fire. And believe it or not, I was the only one defending Calia as a potential member of a new Desolate Council on the French forums at the beginning of BFA, long before we knew that it would actually happen. I got exactly what I wanted now on the outside, but I’m not a fan of her lack of development during Shadowlands and her leniency to the Alliance. She had an expansion and a half to make her position known and the only thing that Shadowlands showed was her ties to the Alliance. You’re free to like it but it’s bad character development in my book.
For Calia - Shadowlands was a missed opportunity for both her and Arthas.
Never mind Jaina, Uther and Sylvanas being the last ones to see Arthas off, as they knew him - what about his sister?
It was never the best story, but Calia/Arthas should have been one of their biggest stories going into Shadowlands. Even as an elf fan, I wanted to see them two see each other again…
EDIT:
In the book, Calia was being married off to a cruel noble man and she had a moment with Arthas, asking that he never does such a thing when he is king.
It’s these little things that I wanted. I knew I wasn’t going to get much Nightborne or Blood Elf stuff, but Calia and Arthas - I did want to see them two.
What I didn’t get is why they went from presenting Calia as a messiah who knew how to live as a… bright undead and could spread her message and mysterious techniques to the others, to the lost shadow in search of answers in Shadowlands. It’s like the writers didn’t know how to write her in.
It should have been common sense on how to write her in, even without the whole “light undead” thing.
So much linking to Arthas, his sister involved - do I need to call Columbo on this one?
But no, Danuser wanted to focus the story on Sylvanas, Anduin and Zovaal with Tyrande having the main side plot. Focusing on those 4 characters and ONLY those 4…well, failure from the start.
“Less is more” can be good, when we look at race/class combo lore, but for character development and involvement - we needed far more characters.
They gave subtle hints to possible meet ups, but never followed through.
Vashj/Tyrande - Vashj tried to kill her in Zin-Azshari and she still carries that bitterness towards Tyrande, even in death as she is basically spitting “I know she is hard to kill!”
Calia/Arthas - obvious. They are brother and sister.
Kael’thas/Lor’themar - again, subtle hint at the end, but no follow through.
EDIT:
Sylvanas, Tyrande, Anduin and Bald’N’Blue can’t save the narrative of expansions. You need more and Legion executed that perfectly.
and I’ m not sure how the Forsaken can keep its tomb still honored and intact in the Undercity after all his family did to them after all… 
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