“It is not about Rogue /FWarr DPS , it is about they don’t bring anything to the raid”
i’v heard many time this newspeak mantra, mind program that people are repeating like parrots.
I guess between the lines it means : ‘Warglaives of Azzinoth reserved’
What do rogues bring? Aside from great dps with a threat reset, they have the best interrupt (shaman is on a shorter cooldown but has a shorter silence), Expose Armor (2/2 is superior to Sunder Armor). Hemo Rogues were also seen in high end raiding, bringing the Hemo physical debuff.
They can evasion tank with some boss strategies, they are the best spec for breaking MC’s on Kael Thas, other classes can do it but Rogue has shiv which is ideal. Of course the reason Rogues got stacked is high dps without threat limit.
Fury Warrior - Best 2 target cleave in game, 3-4th best AOE spec and top of the melee, comparable single target to rogue (but no threat dump), and once per 30mins the most unbelievable execute with recklessness. Pummel, Improved Battle/Commanding shout for AP/Health, improved demo shout (reduces boss damage while allowing locks to use curse of recklessness), sunder armor.
Arms Warrior - The same utility as Fury Warrior + Blood Frenzy 4% Physical damage debuff. Super strong on cleave/aoe but one of the weaker single target specs, though still holds its own and has a decent execute.
Rogues were awesome in TBC. Some top guilds were even using 4-5 rogues in their 25 man roster.
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Yes bro, I don’t know, playing WOW since september 2020, never been playing that game before and those rumours about rogues in TBC hits me harder everyday. That’s why I wanna see people’s opinion on forum instead of comments and youtube videos.
People simply repeating what they heard in the past before the fix occurred ?
I mean, there are countless “forum hoaxes”, which state as fact things that either never happened or have been changed, like “there was not enough quests in Vanilla to reach level 60 and you needed to grind”.
Dont compare fresh tbc with the actual tbc. People were not min maxing back then. Nowdays all rosters will have 15 ranged. It’s over… either we go classic era or cancel subscription.
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We had three-four rogues in our roster, and we were not unusual. There will be less rogues/warrior spots in TBC than in Vanilla, but that’s more because they were too prevalent in Classic due to meta (benefitting massively from WB and able to cleave), so it’s more a return to expected than being actually unwanted.
Don’t worry, we’ll be fine.
No normal guild is going to care wether you play rogue or whatever other class. Why do you people think that people are going to tryhard like this in TBC? Literally nobody cares. Everyone’s just clearing the dungeons and raids with zero issues because they’re terribly easy.
SSC and tk a joke? You must have been lucky to find 24 other people who could do vashj or kael
One another bonus with rogues: they are another tanking option, at least for ZA.
Was tanking ZA and even without the proper build.
I can confirm that rogues were destroying the dmg metters in T5 and onwards. In some T6 fights they can outdps warlocks, easy.
They will struggle a bit in T4 but after that it’s easy game. Not to mention they are absolute monsters in PvP.
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it was never about luck, it’s just addiction to find people who cares,
the same issue since 2005 till now, while many people doesn’t step into mythics raids? many others clear it in week1~2, so should i call mythic hard or easy?
same goes to arena…while some people can SOLO 1vs2 to 1800k rating others can’t even reach 1400. and some can’t even reach 1200
when it comes to wow? the difference in people skills is huge,
let’s talk about the past…Neptulon server first karazhan clear in EU was done by guild called heroic in first week.(they had zero melee) while most people was stuck at (The Curator) for weeks even Months, some of random guilds thought that they need full Arcane resist to even down that boss and gimp’d the dps and was never able to take him down.
to the people who clear it fast OFC it’s a joke, and to the people who clear it with heavy effort then it’s normal but require effort, & to the people who clear it in months? it’s Super hard.
ok forget the 10man raid, what about the 25man raid? I personally never seen a guild back then using more than 1melee group in whole raid, not in 50top guilds, the class’s in that group is 1enhanc and 4spots for both warr/rogues. it was simply because why bring more melee? if ranged handle encounter better & have more dps, and at some encounters? they will bring zero melee. that thing already happened in the past when those guilds wasn’t even doing any meta… but now today’s more spreading knowledge? it will be worse for melee specially if you’re a rogue.
the only reason guilds will bring more melee is that “WE can’t find more Bandwagon class’s players! so let’s fill with anything” or "we will not be able to gear all those bandwagon stacked class’s so let’s get melee to not Disenchant the melee gear"
because every pve guild leader create a pve guild wishing to clear raids, he/she does not care what he/she have to do do in order to clear raids, Unless that guild leader is so casual and play with friends for fun and are not bothered if raids are cleared in months after release but that’s a different story.
But it’s different for SWP, a duel glaive rogue user could easily break 2500dps at Brutallus, some guilds stacked rogues back then like eyeballers wow cus they had an abuse to get 16x warglaive to drop. not gonna talk about that in forums since it’s considered cheating and post will be removed 
but yes i was 1 of them.
anyway…it never matter what class you’re playing because there are variety guilds & minds, But nothing change the fact that A min-max guilds will use the best class’s.
i will not be surprised if a min-max guild make different raids/bugs, reserve items for their ranged class’s and have a whole ranged setup of BIS gear…F**K blizz but that way they will face-roll tk/ssc with zero melee.
Alot of boss fights requires melees
Secondly no raid guild wants to spend 2 hours a night just to vendor and DE all the gear dropping. Melees will be there and welcome. I can just see top raid guilds lock and hunter stack.
well…OP @ [Stabzero]
classic raids was 40man, many guilds had only 2~4rogues in many fights/raids. so imagine when raids are squeezed to 25man. probably only 2active rogues per guild.
sadly the rogue can do nothing but dps…but a warr/feral can still get tank gear as offspec if he/she will be needed to tank.
When the challenge left the chat?
Hold on, mate. Do u remember how players before classic predicted that hunters won’t find free spot in raids, unless one cos of tranq shot? That shadow priests and non-healing shamans and ofc druids, masters of nothing, will find the free raid spot hardly? And that nothing than raid filled with fury warriors doesn’t make sense, because they are generating most dps = are only worth? And that each raid member must have engineering? Yet, where are these predictions? Forgotten in time, majority of guilds play with what they get. Only few % of guilds are HC, speedruninng guilds, where the raid itself is not challenge - the challenge is, how fast you will run it.
In TBC - how often do u think guilds will reject their melees, cos they are not TOP dps? How much and how often will rogues and warrs suffer due to no interest for their contribution to raids? Do you expect full range raid groups? The question is - do you play in very HC guild, where speedrunning is mantra? Then yes, be afraid of your spot as melee. And other 90% of guilds? They don’t care you are not lock or hunter, sp o play whatever you want.
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Anti melee? Our groups always had atleast 7 or 8 in 25 man raids.
Dunno what are u talking about tbh.
Also for example in ZA, there were many full melee raids which easily timed for the bear.
So honestly i dont know where is this “anti-melee” bullcrap came from.
TBC is no more melee-unfriendly then almost every other raid tier post classic. Even in retail, there is a massive preference on ranged. Melee will still get raid spots but you’ll find ur class being looked for a lot less often, that’s all and there’ll probably be less of ur class/spec in the raid. And ur more likely to get declined from pugs but doesn’t mean u can’t get into a pug as melee.
@Cute - You say they only stacked rogues in Sunwell with glaives and they weren’t on world first kills but all of the important world firsts had 2-4 Rogues and 1-2 DPS Warriors. Kael’thas, Vashj, Archimonde, Illidan, Mu’ru, Kil’jaeden
Your entire opinion is based on some distorted alternate reality. And you say melee do less dps than ranged, but probably don’t understand the importance of boss armor.
Shade of Aran, Illhoof, Netherspite, Curator, Fathom Lord, Vashj, Solarian, Kael’thas, All of Hyjal, Teron Gorefiend, Mother, Illidari Council, Kalecgos, Felmyst, Eredar Twins, Kil’jaeden… High king adds too.
These fights are all low armor bosses below 7k and either lend themselves to physical demolishing spell overall or they lend themselves to melee being really strong in key moments on the fight where priority target dps is important.
If you need a great example of that in Retail it’s Sire Denathrius, where Arms Warrior (one of the weakest specs) was taken because it did among the highest dps where it mattered most, in Phase 3, even if it wasn’t top overall.
Rogues can interrupt which is a requirement on a tonne of fights, the shiv is also a great benefit on Kael Thas. Being able to sprint on Vashj for cores is great.
If the Warrior is a tank and you want them to DPS they either just play Prot with Fury gear equipped and be a mediocre melee or you swap them out for an active bench player outside the raid, it’s too much time wasting to have them respec in the middle of the raid while you have trash spawn timers, not to mention the gold cost.
If the Warrior is Fury then there are only a handful of fights where they aren’t valued (like A’lar), but you still need people to deal with adds and the boss isn’t tuned difficult, so it’s pointless to switch them out. Your mainspec DPS Warrior is only going to need to go Prot if one of your tanks doesn’t show up.
They are not going to change it, they never changed it back in the day either. You can play as a rogue in PvE. You just have to find a guild that couldn’t get the recruits they wanted.
You don’t bring anything to the raid, at all. You can’t do as much damage, you cant dispell, you cant heal, you can’t transfer aggro and you will take more damage than anyone else.
Yeah sounds great.