no there is not. Like I said to the guy before, the only difference between them is how they move through the dungeon. They all just pulling mobs, maintaining defensive CDs, and minding the environment.
yeah, might been a lot of those as well, true
there is no playing around with something unavoidable. All I can do with that affix is scream for dispel and pray tank would rather pull fast enough or dont pull at all. Lol
there is no reason why unavoidable debuff should punish just one class so much more. No reason for it at all.
you have exactly 186 points higher score than I do and about 15 more dungeons completed in total. Pls, go spread this toxicity somewhere else
That is why if they make a new tank he will by defenition pull mobs, maintain defensive CDs and minding the environment. On himself or his pets.
And that is why a new tanking spec will not be to your liking.
Then your problem is not drop rate. Its completion rate.
If you did 14 and you claim to have done 40 then your completion rate is 35%. So you should ask blizzard to nerf GB. Instead of buffing drop rates.
Its like the boumsandi affix you like so much. If the tank dosent pull according to the affix and is not mindfull of the % you get the same result.
Dont blame the affix. Blame the players.
I said I havent played for the past 3 weeks. For personal reasons. Also, you count the total. You got a bunch of <10 keys. Most of your keys are low. Most of mine are 10+ and above. There is a difference.
And those 186 points are not nothing. Try to get them.
Plus. What toxicity ? I literally said this in my posts:
That constitutes âtoxicityâ to you?
In conclusion, I said before that I have multiple trinkets and items from all dungeons. Including the trinket you want. And 3 Hero eggsacks everyone wants.
So. If I have that in my inventory and you dont. It means that all you need to do is 15 more dungeons than me. Thats all.
So what you want is a tank that plays drastically different then all the tanks we have right now in hope that will bring more people to tank?
I mean thatâs an alright idea that could pay of the big question is how should a class/spec be played in order to be vastly different from what we have and still fullfil the role of a tank the same as the others.
An idea I have for quite some time now is something I thought of when I saw the priests mind control ability for the first time.
The tank could take control of enemies and force them to fight each other. That tank would not be a walking brickwall like our other tanks but a frail one and he is not so much mitigating dmg but just sacrifices his host. Something parasite like could work for that.
And thats just a rough idea ofcourse I have no idea if something like that could work and what would need to change in dungeons and raids for it to work but a class like that would bring me personally to tank ^^
No I mean itâs just BS that as a rogue you really are dependant on the stealth to utilize your dmg and the affix just destealths you, and while you do not need that dmg to time the key (most of the time) itâs just not fun to be solely dependent on other people. And yes while I agree that M+ is team focused content, most PuGs do not share that sentiment.
Anyway affixes. I like the kiss/curse mechanics as an idea, and I do think that some of the current ones are fine, however I would also like to see some curse affixes again that are more mechanical and not -15s on timer or passive % stat. I have always found Tyrranical and Fort to be boring and now we have Guile which is just another permutation on tyrra abd forth. If you are already doing all the mechanics of the dungeon, like proper kicks, CC, dispells, avoiding dmgâŚetc., they donât really add anything. I am not saying itâs not a challenge, but I am saying that it does get boring. I did try a few 12s but I really lost interest, I am having way more fun in 11s because I have more stuff to do there.
Yes. But the affix is the least of our problems right now.
And its still much better than Bolstering. That also required team play that never happened in PuG environments.
Plus I am a healer. I have been years depending on other people to do the affixes. And I ended up doing them myself because nobody else would do it. So a minor thing like not being able to stelth is a non-issue for me. Not compared to what I have to do.
Oh no, I agree that a lot of the old affixes were BS. I just preferred the old 2 mechanical affixes and Tyrra/ Forth way. I donât like 1 affix that you have to do things and 4 passive % stat ones (ok one of them is a death penalty). I mean what do they add to the dungeon, utilize your characters abilites - ok I was doing that, do not die - ok again I was already doing that, ok what else - dodge stuffâŚ
Iâm really getting tired of you, that is what Iâve been telling you the whole time, you do not understand what Iâm proposing yet are still so eager to oppose it. Told you twice already, tell you again. Move on from this, you just donât see it as I do and that is ok, no point in arguing about it.
ridiculousâŚ
the âwhyâ is not important at all, I havenât done more because I did different things, you havenât done more, because you did different things as well. The results are the same. We are both in 12-14 bracket, you are in no position to call if someone is a âkey pusherâ or not.
yes, they are nothing. You are literally one key level ahead. People are pushing 19+ already, you are no different to me in that matter. Except you are playing meta healer and you are getting instant invites so you donât spend that much time forming a group to give the push a try, but sure you are aware of that as well.
yes.
yes, I pointed out overwatch, there are static tanks and dive tanks, two types at least maybe even more nowadays, I dunno, but you understand correctly Iâd love to see a new tank playstyle, whatever it will be. I mentioned also, the âleakâ of the tinker class, I can easily imagine a tinker tanking in mech etc, could be regular dps with just tank âmodeâ or something, the sky is the limit.
doesnât sound bad at all, maybe a warlock can tank with demons, hutner with his pets as well. Just something different from the current tank so more people can try the role.
I mean Uda has a point though. Donât get me wrong I donât like dispell affixes either (different reason than yours), the fault is not in the affix itself, itâs that people donât do them. And itâs a lot easier to just remove these affixes and not add similar ones than to re-educate a player base.
This is going to fail spectacularly because the pet AI is absolute garbage. And you might say that âthey will obv rework the pet Ai if they are going to make tanks use petsâ, no they wonât, as DPS-ers have been complaining about the Pet Ai since the dawn of time and Blizzard havenât lifted a finger about it, they have made specs that solely rely on multiple pets and the AI is even worse, I donât see them doing anything to improve it just because they could potentially add a tank class that uses pets. That Tinker Tank stuff, if true, will just be what you call âthe regular tankâ but in a mech suit, replace âHeroic leapâ with âRocket jumpâ, replace âFrenzied regenâ with âRepair matrixâ, replace âBone shieldâ with âShield Generatorâ.
Meta healer is DPriest if you did not notice. I was meta. 2 months agoâŚ
And 12/13 is different than 11/12. The fact that you dont realize this tells me everything.
I totally understand what you are proposing. I read it. Though about it. Understood it.
And its wrong.
It would be so disruptive. So a tank that generates zero damage to the party because mobs are hitting other mobs ? What do you do with bosses then ? And how would that work in a raid ?
As for pets. There will never be a class that uses lets AI tank for him while he AFKs in the dungeon. So all those mitigation buttons you dont like to press, well you will have to press them anyways. Same way Demo Warlocks and BM hunters have to.
Same exact mechanics. Current specs: Tank buster == big CD wall or you die. Pet tank spec: Tank buster == press button so pet casts big CD wall or he dies (and then you). Same thing with extra steps.
Look. Tanks are the way they are because the game is the way it is. If you want different tanks you need a different game. Literally.
No. Mechanics are the limit. If you play DPS you play DPS. If you play Tank you play Tank.
Warriors had something close to that with defensive stance. And mechanically, its better to simply sit on defensive stance.
Because division of labor (tanky tank + glass cannon DD + healer) yields better results than mixing things up. In other words, the holy trinity of Tank, Healer and DD is not something blizzard imposes.
Its simply a derivative of cooperative PvE games. Not just WoW. ANY game. Overwatch, Darktide, even Diablo.
And beleive me. Blizzard tried so many times to make âhybridsâ work. Like the Prot Paladins and GDruids of Vanilla wow. But it was a catastrophic failure. It did not work. Other MMOs also tried. And also failed.
You did. But you forgot to point out that in Overwatch you can switch toon mid match. And you dont have to farm gear or anything of those lines.
Makes a BIG difference if you ask me.
Plus. If you would have tanked you would have realized that there are self-healing tanks (BDKs), mitigation tanks (Warriors), and BM monks as the outlier with stagger. 3 different ways to deal with mechanics. Even VDH with its crazy mobility dashing and jumping everywhere (kiting everything) could be considered a 4rth way of doing things.
Understand, and I agree but itâs not just affixes that ruin stealth gameplay in particular, every âdoorwayâ in Mist removes stealth as well, or when Rashan in Dawnbreaker starts flying before the second boss phase my Deathstalkers mark falls off in between phases, they clearly totally ignored this type of gameplay when designing dungeons, so I donât believe this, in particular, was intentional affix impact, so thatâs mostly the reason why I complain about it.
could be truth, but Iâm just trying to figure out different ways to tank role, Iâd not mind myself tanking if constantly getting punched to my face is not the main gameplay of it. The AI doesnât have to be static (as is now), a warlock in particular I can imagine he summons demon after demon, hordes of demons to confuse enemies, and before they are managed to smash all those demons we nuke them down. While Warlock himself stays a DPS.
might be, but in my head, I imagine it like that: you are a DPS, throwing bombs and mechs to help around ordering the mech to just keep aggro and press defensive for it manually, while in boss(hard pack) fight, the tinker dps can enter the mech suit and be a âregularâ tank while it still could be played differently.
there is no 11-12 bracket paladin in disguise. Itâs 12-14 like it or not, now be gone. Shush.
no, itâs not we are both pushing bracket without affixes now, we are bot at the same âbeginnerâ level of it for whatever reasons. If you believe you are better, you should be pushing at least 14s for me to accept a âjudgmentâ from you. Same as you, I donât consider you a bad player because of it, but like I said, people already doing 19+, there is no point in arguing about that. One key level ahead is nothing to call me ânot pusherâ and yourselves âa pusherâ.
You spent most of your time sitting in a raid. I spent most of my time sitting in a dungeon.
So I get more M+ loot. You get more Raid loot.
If you want more M+ loot, then do more M+. If you want easier M+ loot, I want easier Raid loot.
Sound fair ?
I passed that hill 2 months ago. Im not pushing anymore since.
Makes a difference. Because I did it with 625 ilvl. Not 636 ilvl.
But that is besides the point. My point from all this is to say that if you want M+ gear you have to play M+ dungeons. And you havenât played enough, or finished enough dungeons to get that gear.
Mainly because you dont play enough M+. Or deplete too many keys. One or the other. But Raider IO dosent lie.
Which was the point from the beginning: Loot drops are fine. You havenât done GB 40 times. You gotta farm a bit more if you want that trinket. And if you played M+ more regularly you would not need to farm anything at all. You would have duplicates of everything in your backpack by now.
That was the point.
Its in the name âtankâ. Its not called âDD with benefitsâ or something else. The word itself implies getting smashed in the face.
As for pets doing the work: I repeat⌠you are not asking for a different Tank. You are asking for a DPS that can function as a tank.
absolutely, I have nothing against creating a scenario where we will know what drops, or affect what it might be after some conditions have been made. Iâd just not remove the roll from it in raid, because there are too many people who might want it. It would require a slightly different approach but I have nothing against âusâ having options to affect it either way. Rather itâs in the instance drop itself, or personal weekly reward.
Iâm not here to argue about your or my progression status, your last push was 5.12.24, that is not so long ago and if you are so better, you should be pushing way higher than one key level ahead of me to classify me lesser value âpusherâ or ânot pusherâ. For whatever reason, you are now at the same level, that is the only that matters.
that is just one way I consider might work, Iâm not a game designer to figure that out. The proposition is clear. A different tank gameplay so more people might want to give it a go, not just those who like their faces being smashed.
you have no idea what might work or not, Blizzard themself have no idea how to approach this problematics.
But thatâs the thing I was trying to explain, we have been complaining about the pet AI since forever, BM hunter is one of the most played specs overall, I really donât see them changing anything for tank tank uses pets. From the looks of things Blizzard are trying to avoid acknowledge the issue all together.
Minus the confuse part, that is a demo lock and itâs barely functional to just DPS (not numbers wise). You mentioned Dawnbreaker, do you know how âfunâ Dawnbreaker is as demo lock? So a TLDR about how the class is played, we need imps, lots of imps, imps are out AoE and our primary SS/Demonic core genration, also no demonic cores means no Doom spread, also we need said imps ready or at least cores going from pull to pull. So now imagine every single time you having to mount and fly in that dungeon your imps despawning (oh also our major CD can be one-shotted so thats fun as well). I mean you are complaining that your mark falls of on the last boss⌠I essentially have 2 boss fights in that dungeon where I have to essentially restart the fight from scratch. And with all that in mind for pet classes, you want them to tank? Idk man it seems you havenât really tanked all that much or at all, you should try it before thinking of new ways to do it. Oh and âbeing punched in the faceâ is not the only thing a tank does, positioning mobs/bosses and where they face is a big part of the role, so again gl hf doing that with a pet.
