So many m+ "solution" threads these days, so here is mine

[Álaric-mirage-raceway]

None of the lock specs this season are fun which is a real shame.

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

there is no 11-12 bracket paladin in disguise. It’s 12-14 like it or not, now be gone. Shush.

Half 11’s half 12’s is the 11-12 bracket. Can we call it the “almost done most 12’s bracket and can we pwease pwtend they are 14;s?”

[Coollerqq-drakthul]

@Amonet-ravencrest

But that’s the thing I was trying to explain, we have been complaining about the pet AI since forever,

@Amonet-ravencrest

demo lock and it’s barely functional to just DPS (not numbers wise).

@Amonet-ravencrest

I mean you are complaining that your mark falls of on the last boss… I essentially have 2 boss fights in that dungeon where I have to essentially restart the fight from scratch

I hear you, I’m not a “pet class player” so I don’t really know about these problems, it was just an idea. I also want to be able to off-tank as a rogue, I’m not thinking about just others to do it.

if it is on me, I’d redo the whole wow in the new game engine that would allow making what is unthinkable now…

@Amonet-ravencrest

you haven’t really tanked all that much or at all, you should try it before thinking of new ways to do it.

well, that’s the thing, I’d like to, but different way than it is now maybe I’m creating a paradox but I could never tank in current tank state, I could just not.

[Uda-uldum]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

absolutely, I have nothing against creating a scenario where we will know what drops, or affect what it might be after some conditions have been made. I’d just not remove the roll from it in raid, because there are too many people who might want it. It would require a slightly different approach but I have nothing against “us” having options to affect it either way. Rather it’s in the instance drop itself, or personal weekly reward.

We can agree on something.

Bullions will suffice. Its a fair exchange.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

your last push was 5.12.24

It wasent a push. It was 1 key for the vault.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

For whatever reason, you are now at the same level, that is the only that matters.

You got most 11s, some 12s. I got all 12s, some 13s. And a ton of depleted 14s.

Its a big difference. You will tell me how that goes. If its that easy it wont take you long.

And im being totally honest here: Prove me wrong. I would be more than happy to swallow my words, and my pride.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

you have no idea what might work or not, Blizzard themself have no idea how to approach this problematics.

Somethings are too obvious, especially when they were tried in the past and failed… multiple times.

So yeah. I know. And blizzard knows too.

[Coollerqq-drakthul]

@Uda-uldum

Its a big difference.

nah, it’s not, I’d have a ton of depleted higher keys as well if anyone accepted my application. It’s not that easy to find a group as DPS, but I definitely will push higher don’t you worry. 3k minimum goal before the season ends for sure.

@Uda-uldum

Somethings are too obvious

if only it’s that simple

[Athzura-hydraxian-waterlords]

Read the 2nd part of my sentence.

[Carnifex-azjolnerub]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

replace the deplete system with a simple cooldown or nothing at all

We need stakes in the game. Something that pushes us to the limit. If you reach a limit by not being able to do something within a timer, that is a you problem. Not the timer. Granted that Blizz could get better at tuning stuff at higher key levels but at a certain point, things will hurt and you will also need the gear for it (shocker i know).
I saw someone give the idea of keys having a double or triple charge and if you fail all of those, it depletes instead of instantly.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

reward for successful kicks with bonus damage

The reward is already in the game. Kick and don’t die.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

punish taking avoidable damage with damage dealt deduction.

Now this is something i can get behind. FF14 has something similar where things will hurt even more if you screw up and stacks. Making YOU lose damage instead would incentivize people to learn.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

create affixes that make this more interesting instead of extra mechanics to do.

This will always be subjective on what you as a player find fun. I found Quaking not as annoying as people other people and im melee. But affixes like Sanguine, Necrotic, Bursting and Grievous was, in majority, a single roles responsibility. They can make affixes happen less than like every minute or 30 sec in some other affixes cases. Constant barrage isnt fun, just annoying.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

introduce a magic fairy that allows me to bribe loot gods for desired items after 20 successful runs of the same dungeon.

Just like the last season of every xpac, we get a thing where we could by almost any item. Mostly from the raids. So something that applied to M+ would be nice. Make people want to farm something specific.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

allow some DPS classes to take some responsibility from the tank/healer role. (Like, give me [a rogue] a taunt finally)

Me as a warrior aka plate will get obliterated if i accidently taunt something. Even when popping defensives. What would make you think other classes can survive without any other defensives? Could also be exploited if any other changes was added.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

redo the vault idea and loot distribution in general - perhaps evolve on number 6.

Depends on how they do it. Don’t see how they could make it better any other way than just increasing drops and/or amount with the loot distribution in itself. Give more gear and i can gurantee you people will still complain but in the other direction.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

now let that sink in.

You haven’t really brought any ideas that hasn’t already been mentioned countless times other than being vague with most of them.

[Uda-uldum]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

nah, it’s not, I’d have a ton of depleted higher keys as well if anyone accepted my application

Its always someone else.

Classic.

I wish you good luck. Wont be easy:

https://ibb.co/6vgVxJ1

[Zantria-argent-dawn]

@Tormyr-argent-dawn

Also, just kill M+ so that the entire rest of the game may live.

Anyone that thinks the game will live without m+ really needs to get their stuff together…

[Fürri-twisting-nether]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

reward for successful kicks with bonus damage

I see where you’re coming from with this but I’d be against rewarding using certain spells. If you have a spell available to your class, it’s there for you to use it. What next, reward clicking frostbolt with gold? Watching out for game mechanics and successfully countering them should be its own reward. (Gosh, for some classes just having an interrupt would be a reward in itself, they’d be happy to use it without any further incentive!)

@Coollerqq-drakthul

create more tank/heal specs/classes.

Before that, I’d love to see the current ones being equally capable and desirable in m+. As it is now, some tank or healer specs don’t even have a chance to participate because they are simply subpar compared to the rest with extra utilities, etc. I’d start with fixing that first.

[Fürri-twisting-nether]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

nope, it’s not A nor B, I have problems because some dungeon has too huge loot pools flooded with items so the drop chance of what I want is very low. I’ve been at least 40+ grim batols for my hc Skyrdin, still don’t have it, and now have no point to farm it anymore.

I think this is more of a matter of being mentally married to specific loot items bc this or that guy on YT told me so. If you play the game and get vault slots etc. you can gear up at a good pace, there’s never just 1 item that will make or break your character. I have trinkets I’ve never seen drop, and am still using a Champion staff bc I haven’t seen a wep in all the HC raids and M+s that I do… I don’t mind too much as the rest of my gear easily makes up for missing 1 particular item. There are always alternatives. You can get stuff crafted, too. Imo the loot / gearing up system has come a long way and it’s very very player friendly already.

[Tormyr-argent-dawn]

Or they can consider the preceding 12 years of WoW existing perfectly fine without it.

Or Classic WoW today, for that matter.

[Zantria-argent-dawn]

Okay let me phrase it differently. Delete m+ and retail will be killed off.
Its the classic story of “only WoW can kill WoW”.
Not like Blizzard will ever remove m+ anyways, they definitely understand that m+ carries retail.

[Magiola-darksorrow]

@Uda-uldum

Make kicks work like dispels. So if you end up not kicking anything, you don’t incur a CD on said kick.

No. Kicks aren’t on GCD (and shouldn’t be either), which means that in such a system you can just bind it into all your rotational abilities. Horrendous idea, please forget about it. I’ve seen this crap being repeated too often already.

[Uda-uldum]

@Magiola-darksorrow

No. Kicks aren’t on GCD (and shouldn’t be either), which means that in such a system you can just bind it into all your rotational abilities. Horrendous idea, please forget about it. I’ve seen this crap being repeated too often already.

Do that and you will see the mistake.

All the “bolts” you kick with your macro means that the kick is on CD for the “volley” and you die.

If you wanna roll the dice like that be my guest.

[Magiola-darksorrow]

@Uda-uldum

Do that and you will see the mistake.

All the “bolts” you kick with your macro means that the kick is on CD for the “volley” and you die.

That would not be any worse situation than it is now. And in the best case your interrupt keeps resetting because others are faster.

I stick to the point, this solves nothing.

Just reduce the amount of casts. Simple. Easy.

[Coollerqq-drakthul]

@Athzura-hydraxian-waterlords

Read the 2nd part of my sentence.

you mean that part about rogues being assassins? No, we are rogues, not assassins. Rogue tanking fantasy has existed since vanilla, they just never evolved it further.

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

We need stakes in the game. Something that pushes us to the limit

you are correct but, I will not be pushing my key back to the level I need it because it will change the dungeon when finished so if I happen to deplete my key it’s done for the week.

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

Kick and don’t die.

not the same thing, not what I am trying to address. The intention behind this is to make gameplay for tanks and healers more enjoyable. It does not have be a huge reward, I’m talking about 500 mastery for few seconds or something like that

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

What would make you think other classes can survive without any other defensives

this is exactly my intention. I want other classes to have possibilities for their defensive to help the tank. For example I can tank for some time as a rogue, I want to be able to eat some heavy hit for the tank. Nothing mandatory, just create a possibility to do such.

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

You haven’t really brought any ideas that hasn’t already been mentioned

yes, because I read all that has been already brought.

@Uda-uldum

Its always someone else.

you are playing high enough to know saying healer has easier time to find group is no excuse but reality. Especially a meta healer.

@Uda-uldum

Wont be easy:

watch and learn

@Fürri-twisting-nether

If you have a spell available to your class, it’s there for you to use it.

well exactly, “for you to use”, but you mostly kick spells casted not on you, to help the group. Some people, (you might be surprised how many), won’t do it, because “someone else” will, so the reward incentive might persuade these people to utilize those abilities not just “for them to use”. Or a mechanic that allows those who do to do it more, but that could have a horrible outcome because those who don’t might now not ever.

As a reward I have a small buff for couple seconds in my mind, nothing like gold or whatever physical you imagine.

@Fürri-twisting-nether

Before that, I’d love to see the current ones being equally capable

this will not happen until they kill the meta, which might be impossible, so a controlled dynamic meta where everyone has a good time at some point in the season is not as bad. They all should be viable though.

@Fürri-twisting-nether

there’s never just 1 item that will make or break your character.

there definitely are items like that and it mostly are trinkets, unfortunately. For not just rogues it is skardyn’s trinket from Grim Batol, for casters there is Spymaster from Silken Court. Those trinkets are broken af, allow you to multiply your regular DPS by a lot.

[Carnifex-azjolnerub]

@Coollerqq-drakthul

not the same thing, not what I am trying to address. The intention behind this is to make gameplay for tanks and healers more enjoyable. It does not have be a huge reward, I’m talking about 500 mastery for few seconds or something like that

We don’t need to be rewarded for everything. Kick stuff and you won’t die. The reward is you completing the key because i can assure you, not kicking won’t help you time keys. Even if Blizz added a reward for kicking, people won’t magically start kicking twice or triple as much. And remember the meta chasers: if something increases your damage, people WILL pick classes with the lowest kick CD and best damage.

@Coollerqq-drakthul

this is exactly my intention. I want other classes to have possibilities for their defensive to help the tank. For example I can tank for some time as a rogue, I want to be able to eat some heavy hit for the tank. Nothing mandatory, just create a possibility to do such.

Sure, i can see the intention. But things do look good on paper but the execution can be terrible. Doesn’t matter if Blizz tried their hardest because some ideas just doesn’t work.

[Coollerqq-drakthul]

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

not kicking won’t help you time keys.

yet not even in 12+ people seem to realize this, how strange. Right?

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

people WILL pick classes with the lowest kick CD and best damage.

well, that sounds very positive, doesn’t it? and very unlikely… what do you imagine I meant by rewarding for kicks I wonder? It must have been something extreme to believe it would shift the meta. But what I meant by that is a small buff for whatever, could be random, just something that might encourage people to use that interrupt ability.

@Carnifex-azjolnerub

But things do look good on paper but the execution can be terrible.

you never know if you never try

[Uda-uldum]

@Magiola-darksorrow

Just reduce the amount of casts. Simple. Easy.

Oh for sure ! 100%

They have to go back to the spell quew system they had pre-TWW. That would solve everything.