Nerfed drop rates would be okay IF they re-introduced master looter back.
Scarce loot was not a big issue in vanilla. Tbh this was the ONLY time when loot was THIS scarce. In TBC there were on average 5 items per 25 player group getting a kill. Sometimes bonus loot on top of those 5 items. And the game has been pretty consistent with this, CATA bumped this up to 6 items from 25-man kills and eventually 5 items out of 20 player mythic kills.
Now they nerfed this to 3. Just 3 per 20 players.
It hasn’t been this low in any expansion. Only in Vanilla which was 15 years ago.
It’s not a problem in Classic because of two things:
-Content is very accessible and easy to defeat. Not even the coveted Naxxramas provided challenge even close to what heroic Nathria or Mythic +10 keystone provides
-There is master loot. You can distribute your drops with this. Sometimes you’ll get unlucky (eg getting intellect plate drops in horde raids) but in general people did not had issues gearing up in classic. Even though loot is rare.
This rarity combined with enforced personal loot can produce very unsatisfying bad luck streaks such as the OP who clears almost the entire raid on heroic, yet receives no drops. Drops that he needs to progress into mythic and I assume he will if he’s nearly ahead of the curve after merely 3 heroic resets.
I know there is Great Vault that will eventually gear you up. You have to do merely +7 keys to obtain 213 loot from vault. But this will take ages. You need 210 ilvl to have a chance at mythic progression and that’s a bare minimum. World-first guilds were doing it at ~215 and typical player does it at way higher gear level, still struggling. How are you going to get 210 ilvl if you’re denied drops week after week? One item per week from GV will not fix this.
Welfare loot = GV = the 4 mythics quest we had = legendairy that yu manually crat = bad for the game’s general feeling especially for us players who do not.
I want to progress through m+ not welfare. If I do not get item through M+ I become welfare depandant which is how it is it now. It is really bad especially low gearing ccome week 7 and stuff which I told you numerous times yoku just ignore that.
Can also be looked from a perspective as “bad luck protection”. Bad loot in m+s? At least you will get something from the vault as a compensation. And whats wrong with multiple gearing paths? I see peps doing pvp for gear as well. I personally don’t like grinding bgs for gear but hey. A matter of taste I guess.
“If its not looted from a boss corpse or m+ end of the dungeon chest” its automatically considered “well-fare” gear to you?
Can also be looked from a standpoint where I jsut wont be motivated to play the content anymore cause I wijll just do 1 +5 per week per char and be done with it… but to each there own, cause you dont get the dundementals of hahving a sence of progression. Its okay that you just accept it, but you’re noit acknowleding our issues which are valid.
And need I remind you, come week 7 M6- will be made uselss? Once again?
Depends on each person’s “view on progression” then. You seem to believe that its vital to have some “material” reward in the end. I disagree. Why do people did keys in BfA above +15? You don’t get better rewards after that point. Cause people wanted to push higher and challenge themselfs.
Same as I am doing now. I aim for higher keys not simply cause “it drops better ilevel stuff” but to get it done and to prove to myself that I can do it. The items in the end is just tools so I can keep pushing for more. And like I said. At least for now. We hadn’t had a deplete simply due to failing a “gear check”. But we failed cause we were simply bad
If you are sense of progression just limits to “give me that shiny item NOAW”. Then lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
But dont let me tell you that where’s a mount to be earned there.
You want to prove yourself, which is fine, and nobody is discouraging that.
You have a big problem starting regular mythic cap 184 and forward for casuakl players like.
M6 drops 197.
PVP gear will be free 197 cause they have currency to upgrade with. I can start n on EBG and be full 197 on three chars come week 7, while I cant get a singlle drop and I am garanteed 1 item out of 2 assuming I dont even get a dupe.
I think Blizzard/Ion have just gone about things the wrong way. They wanted loot to matter and sought the solution in the Vanilla/Classic loot system.
What they forgot is that this gear could easily remain relevant for the entirety of Classic. In modern WOW, by design, this is no longer the case. We are locked into this 6-month eSports seasonal cycle, each season having such a stat bloat that it makes all gear from the previous season irrevelant. Until this approach goes (which I don’t think belongs in an MMO anyway) the Vanilla/Classic gearing system won’t work well.
Just dropping TF/WF in my eyes would have been enough, maybe not making gem slots random (though Ve’nari does somewhat make up for this, be the price way to high). This would have given us a more linear gear progression without RNG based ilevel jumps.
The bonus rolls also could have stayed, always thought of it as a fun little RNG minigame.
While I agree that there isn’t enough loot I’d actually like people to make more general statements. The loot is very rare for all aspects of the game (M+, raids and PvP). Only buffing one of them would ruin the other gearing aspects (PvP is already behind because it takes 4 weeks to buy a weapon with conquest). Either buff them all or leave them as they are.
PvP lines are far more likely to get a weapon in their weekly cache, though, because the loot pool is far less bloated. They have a far better time getting a good weapon than other avenues.
Back in BFA: Spam m+ so you dont at least get oneshot in PvP. A lot of PvPs guys where complaining of being forced into pve to play what they want.
Even if I dont PvP myself. Nice to hear that its no longer “Spam m+ or die” mode.
I believe this is the “middleground”. Because whats a compromise? Compromise = when both sides are equal unhappy.
Some will say its a “middle ground” when their favorite gearing path is “vastly better than the other”.
People want some form of reward for their work so in this respect the loot is NOT fine. You could apply the same principle for raids it’s comparative. Also, it should be about fixed %s which is fair for all, not a dictative algorithm that will only give you loot when the game says you’re supposed to get it.
Remember a game is supposed to be fun. Getting 2-3 pieces of loot in one run is fun and a great feeling and this used to happen years gone by, it didn’t happen every week or every month and may not have happened to you or me but it could happen and did happen and now it doesn’t.
The old system was much better - and also what’s wrong with gearing up quickly anyway? Why not have all the gear in 1*-3 months? (* if you’re very lucky). The game should be about what is beyond that and it isn’t, so why all this fear of gearing quick?
You saying we’re not supposed to gear up quickly? If so why not? Shouldn’t there be a game beyond this? Think about it.
The game should be fun. The luck is being taken away. Blizzard want to control every aspect of loot to prevent people from ‘prematurely’ gearing, but let’s face it it’s really not about that at all it’s about dragging things out and harvesting the data along the way.
i can tell you exackly what does loot “means” for them
it means that their no-social life nolifing has a purpose.
this justifies their 40 + hours a week put into game - because they can feel better then random joe who plays 6-8 hours a week and is excluded from most of content in game
blizzard made a huge mistake - but one that they have been doing for years now so i dont really know what else people were expecting
they cater only to 5% of playerbase because they themselves are in that 5%.
rest is treated like 2nd class citizens - and have been for years now.
SL feed mainly on negative toxic emotions - not on joy and fun from playing and obtaining rewards.
I’m glad you agree! 2 loot used to drop between 40 people in the old system and it made loot feel more rewarding and impactful
I couldn’t even tell you a single item I had equipped in Legion or BFA because the gear was meaningless due to the high quantities and it was just a revolving door of junk being thrown at you before being replaced a few days later (sorry, that’s a lie, I had the Heart of Azeroth equipped and Hyperthread Wristwraps on my Fire Mage) - but I can still tell you the exact name of much of the gear I earned all those years ago with the much more rewarding old system! Especially my Amani Punisher from ZA, oh my Shadow Priest loved the spell hit that baby had
It’s great that you see eye to eye with me that the old system was far better.
That would explain why in my group of people only got 2 items out of 4 or 5 m+'s right? But hey, atleast those two will be geared by 1 item while the rest get a consolidation prize of 35 anima, very “useful” indeed and very “rewarding”
Could have just switched it to 11 or 35 gold if it makes you feel better?
How much did the castle raid boss give gold ? Have to check out of curiosity now…
2 loot used to drop between 40 people in the old system and it made loot feel more rewarding and impactful 
I actually get diverse signals from that post 
For get this one if i misunderstood.