…is probably going to be the old Undead capital, right? Finally bought a copy of exploring the Eastern Kingdoms and in his opening letter to Shaw Anduin mentions they got permission from the Horde for Shaw and Fairwind to visit the Horde territories of Silvermoon and the ruins of lordaeron.
If the leader of the Alliance still recognises those ruins as Horde territory it implies the Alliance withdrew at war’s end and the territory came back under Horde control. Not surprising considering the nature of the zone and the lack of defensible points against the other Forsaken towns in the area. The city is more or less intact after all, just plagued and it will merely take a plot wherein the plague is dealt with and some repairs done for the Undead to return.
Whilst I am sure many Alliance players would complain as Teldrassil is impossible to restore, truth is restoring Undercity saves them time and effort in building two new cities. All resources could thus be spent smartening up the new nelf capital.
Yeah, Forsaken have regained control of Tirisfal, the Alliance withdrew not only because of the plague in the capital but also because in the war they created a big scar with their march through the territory of Tirisfal that probably made the territory even more undesiderable and useless for the living. It’s not as big or bad as the Dead Scar in Quel’thalas of course but it definitely ruined the zone for the Humans, maybe even forever.
About the Forsaken capital, Jaina was able to sweep the plague away for a while with a big frost spell so a few powerful mages of the Horde (for example Thalyssra, Rommath) likely could do the same and clean the place in this way. Even if they are not specialized in frost magic, Blood Elves and Nightborne working together can surely do it. Or maybe Goblins with some weird invention.
Although, if the Forsaken want to rebuild their capital there, I think it should not be exactly identical to the old “Undercity” again. It should just be an undead city built all around the ruins of Lordaeron in open air. Indeed I don’t think in WoW, Undead are generally supposed to live in the sewers, nor they really like it…that was just an idea of Arthas for the capital of the Scourge in Lordaeron that the Forsaken later hijacked.
But the Scourge in Northrend does not really have created any big city made in the sewers or other subterranean place. Indeed ICC and all the Necropolis in general point to the opposite, Undead on Azeroth in general like to build toward the sky, or even travel through the sky, certainly not in the sewers…so I think if they “remake” Undercity, it should not just be a city in the sewers once again (even though underground it’s certainly easier to defend)
Yeah I guess there is a degree of freedom into how they could bring it back, but you have to admit just restoring Undercity and leaving minimal scarring after a plague clean up operation would be highly attractive to them.
The real question is what will they do for the Night Elf capital? You can’t bring Teldrassil back so restoring Undercity would annoy a lot of Alliance players without some form of equivalence, yet building a brand new city takes a lot of time and effort and this one won’t even be an expansion hub.
While for ease, it’ll probably be that. I hope they do not.
Yes, the Forsaken deserve most (if not all of) Lordaeron, and they should definetly keep it.
However, I think the Forsakens new capital city should be Alterac City. Why?
Because it is centrally located around their territories (Hillsbrad, Tirisfal, Silverpine, WPL), it is defensible, mountainous terrain, it is cold slowing their decay and it has room for expansion inside the mountain.
The Alliance withdrew at the start of the Fourth War when the Forsaken blighted Capital City, they have no reason to hold on to it when they are still trying to clean the the Kingdom of Gilneas and the city of Southshore, are rebuilding the Kingdom of Stromgarde, and need to maintain a presence at Shadowfang Keep, Fenris Island and Shadowpyre Village.
Also, apparently it is not so easy, since Lilian Voss states she’s searching for a new place for the Forsaken to settle (pls be Alterac) because Capital City is unusable for them
True, maybe a new capital will be required after all even if it would be quicker to just bring back Undercity (and that may go with that option in the end anyway to save money) but I guess the most important take away is that the passage I quoted confirms the Alliance left Lordaeron back to the Horde after the Fourth War.
I guess this means all the discussions of repurposing it as an Alliance capital somewhere done the line are meaningless, as it’s under Horde control.
All those years of talking about ‘reclaiming Lordaeron’ and at the end of the day, the Alliance gave it back to the Horde of their own free will.
Surely this has to represent the end of the claim to it?
But it happened. That’s the important thing. At war’s end the Alliance left the ruins back to the Horde. About the only territory they claimed from the war was southshore, and it’s still a plague infested rothole.
The thing is by giving it back to the Horde, Anduin conceded it on behalf of the Alliance and whilst others may challenge that at a later date it’s pretty much too late now. It’s Horde territory.
And the nations of Kul Tiras and Stromgarde, and Fenris Keep, Shadowfang Keep, Pyrewood Village, eastern Ashenvale, Felwood and Hyjal.
So yeah, the Alliance basicly claimed south/west Lordaeron for the Alliance and they are really close to Capital City. The only reason they had to abandon it was because the Forsaken Blight made it useless/undefendable for them.
Most of these come from the books “Exploring EK/Kalimdor”, right? I wouldn’t put so much faith in a novel/book when we know Blizzard can completely turn the switch and change the situation in a new faction war if they want to. Like when they declared that the Chronicles were not the absolute canon story of the universe anymore but they were written only from the Titans’ point of view, and as we now know in the Shadowlands now there are others points of view as well about the nature of the universe…
so for me the really canonical Alliance victories and gains in the fourth war were the two warfronts, and the nations of Kul Tiras / Gilneas itself I guess. Everything else like Gilneas taking over portions of Silverpine, or who controls Ashenvale itself, it’s all up in the air until Blizzard makes it clear in the game rather than a novel, because Blizzard could change their mind at any moment if they want to and suits their needs for gameplay.
Anyway it’s true that the Alliance is trying to expand in Lordaeron, that’s for sure. Turalyon said it clearly and Alleria and Umbric seem to have the idea of invading Quel’thalas for the Void Elves, too. However if the Alliance will be the one to restart the faction war, I think they will lose this time…usually whoever restarts it (the Horde of course), has a bigger chance of losing, so if the Alliance restarts it, it probably won’t go very well for them
It could be a nice Capital for a new Forsaken kingdom fully based in the Plaguelands as well, they would be far from the Alliance and closer to the Blood Elves so they could help and protect each others better.
Actually I think it would probably be mirrored, if the Night Elves get a new capital in a zone close to the Horde territory in order to contain and watch over them better (let’s say a capital in Ashenvale or Feralas), then the new Forsaken capital should be near Alliance territories as well (like in Silverpine to contain Gilneas, or in Hillsbrad/Alterac to contain Stromgarde).
If the Night Elves get a capital like in Hyjal, Darkshore or other regions far from the Horde, then the Forsaken will be far from Alliance as well, either staying in Tirisfal or as I said moving east toward the Plaguelands.
What about resettling Deatholme, at the south end of Ghostlands? Maybe not as a capital, but as a major settlement since the Dead Scar has been established to be uncleansable and impossible to settle. They could help the Blelves cover their south border and Amani could perhaps be a main base for ex-Thalassians.
Stratholme and Scarlet Enclave could work very well, while Scholomance could serve as a great fort against anything coming through the Hinterlands.
Blizz learned during tbc that making new capitols was a huge waste of time as all except ogr and IF ended up ghost towns. Cant see them building any new capitols for anyone unless they can tie it into current gameplay.
You want to have even more Undead in Quel’thalas ??? Even if allies, trusting them so much might not be so good for the Blood Elves…
Just kidding. It could actually be a good idea, since Deatholme is probably going to stay corrupted forever…but only for the Forsaken who are from Quel’thalas, specifically like the Dark Rangers of Sylvanas who are still loyal to the Horde. That could work as a base for them. I would think it would work as a new home for San’layn too, if they were ever to join the Horde, or course…
The majority of the Forsaken are from Lordaeron though, so I think the Capital itself should definitely be in a territory of the former Kingdom of Lordaeron. A capital in Quel’thalas or Alterac (or even Northrend !) is definitely a cool idea but most of them don’t come from these places so the thematical connection with Lordaeron would be broken and it would be like they would live like exiles and not in the land they are supposed to belong because they lived there when they were still Humans
Which is why restoring Undercity makes sense. It saves them lots of time and effort.
They may make a new city to please Night Elf fans, but as you say it takes a lot of time and effort any effort they can save themselves could very well be taken.
The exploring eastern kingdoms book having Anduin confirm Tirisfal was handed back to the Horde removes any real obstacle. Just need a plotline where some Forsaken Alchemist figures out how to neutralise the plague, a scenario where we run in and do so, some quick repairs taking place and voila, issue sorted.
A plot that is a progressive reconstruction of Undercity and building a new home for the Night Elves that visually grows and develops over the patches of an expansion. I can imagine integrating PvE and PvP into this as well by being made to go and find materials from old and new instances as well.
I hate to say it why do you think either faction will get a new capital ? It would be nice but there is no way Activision will put the hours in to a project of that size, hell they won’t even bother revamping or updating zones once a expansion has passed.
When the Night Elves players were still angry for the burning of Teldrassil, Blizzard said on Twitter that “a new tree can always grow back”.
So, that’s sort of a confirmation (or at least a promise) that the Night Elves will get a new tree eventually in the future (not sure if they meant in the expansion right after Shadowlands, or maybe even later). So Forsaken should get their own capital as well for gameplay and faction balance, either Undercity again or a new one.
Besides, they are two important races that were introduced in WC3 and since then they had a lot of fans and players. The fact that even some newly introduced allied races have a fully functional capital city in game while two historical races like Night Elves and Forsaken don’t, it is in itself preposterous, if they don’t get a new one in the future at all…
“Should” is pretty much irrelevant. Gilenas should have been given to the Worgen by now. Gnomeregan should have been freed from mere troggs. Silvermoon should have been rebuild. Should doesn’t decide where ressources are allocated, though.
