So When We Fixing Ret?

PVP Arenas
1

I mean we all know the caster issue.

But im pointing this out incase we ever get some tuning for this game.

The amount of stupid sht ret has to use in the game to live and for teammates is still a really big problem. The only reason it isnt Ret meta is because casters dumpster ret.

I mean having wall and vengeance shield at 1m cd still is literally so toxic, meanwhile being able to rotate bubble and then bop, and if ure good at ret u can still win games by just being good at using sanc, so half ur cc in the game is literally useless.

I havent played enough 3s to have an opinion there, this is soley from a SS perspective. But in such a low coordinated game mode, how are u supposed to get crocc cc without it being sanced or someone being on DR. I have stormbolt and shockwave, but by the time i actually connect, if hes good hell track my stunns and pre kite with freedom somewhere so i cant shockwave him not to mention it bugs a lot of the time, and by the time i actually am able to get the stormbolt on healer hes either out of range or its 1 second left on the ret stunn.

I swear its literally so toxic working towards winning and then he just walls every minute and vengeance shield, and hes most likely fine, if not he could always just bop or bubble then lay on hands if he needs to, not to mention being able to perma kite melee if hes good at what hes doing, just save freedom for charge connect and outrun.

People have this wierd conception of not warriors having insane mobillity, if ure actually playing vs people with positional awarness 1 of ur charges is most likely going towards a charge into fear or charge into shockwave so immediatly gone, heroic leap doesnt really help if ur target has freedom and is moving faster than u.

Might be wrong about this, but this is what ive noticed from my 2.3mmr games, if u see ret melee lobby, chances are the ret should go 6/0 because it lends to enough game winning tools, unless ur healer is a priest and knows how to actually purge or md bubble, then u might have a chance.

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I actually agree, i find ret paladins to be obnoxious still. Its also the most frequently played dps spec in shuffle by a fair bit which also means they are everywhere. Warriors has insane mobility though so thats hardly the issue here.

What i find the most frustrating is that rets seemingly get away with terrible cd management all the time n i see ret palas bubble to break the slightest inconvinence. “oh no im rooted for 2 secounds, bubble!” n i still cant properly punish them for using their stongest defensive as an extra trinket. It doesnt help that they aoe murders everything that happens to be in their general direction.

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I mean the mobillity part is specific to hunter and in particular bm/mm and ofc rets. I played my ret to 3.4 last ssn in shuffle and just quit to prove how broken and easy it was. U could if ure good on ret theoretically just sit 20 yards and use freedom defensively as soon as a warrior connects on u. Unlike most classes warrior needs to be within 5 yards range or less to actually deal dmg. Sure u wouldnt have 100% kiting potential but if u do it during good moments, u dont only shut down cross cc but also negative most of the burst. Granted this is literally probably only warrior specific and most other things cant get around this most of the time. But it just feels like when ure facing a ret that theyre literally playing the next expansion. The amount of tools u have as a ret is just bonkers, not to mention everyone swapping to crusader instead of 1m wings. the 2m cd crusader does huuuuge dmg, and its up for so long. So in SS in particular when u get ur second wings, ull most likely win the game in such high damp.

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Im playing fury myself atm n ret is one of the classes i find the toughest to beat. Then again, cant be good at everything. I rip the arms off of the purpleman n the only caster i find really annoying is frost mage. Any tips on dealing with them? I think my main issue is that ever since i picked up fury my monke brain took the wheels n i get caught in bad positions. Fury is stupidly tanky so i rarely die but against good frost mages i feel like i struggle having any relevant impact.

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For me Judgement of the Pure has to go. I thought that Ret highest representation in RSS out of all meeles is related to countering dot based specs. It is never the target for Ele, SP or Fire Mage (unless someone can lock this Ret in place for you).

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I mean forst mage is and always had been a major counter, prob less so for fury because u have bloodrage, but u also dont have bladestorm. Generally u want to force altar time before ur use or dmg cds, and try and track if hes playing, blink or shimmr so u can actually stunn lock him when ur doing ur go. Be careful with ur bloodrage as most good mages will know its coming and insta root u again. And generally dont pop cds unless ure certain he wont run away the same second. Its hard not only because u cant connect on mage alot of the time but also because if u try and go on the other dps ure making him freecast polly and pump out his dmg so ure kinda forced to pressure him somewhat during a game.

For ret, i actually dont know. The burst profile of fury is based around 1.5m cds unlike arms with 30 sec colossus. The issue ive faced is ret having their wall back up for every go i have and if they dont, they can bop and save themselves either for 10 seconds if no one purges or theyll atleast be able to recover. If he doesnt have bop he most likely has loh or bubble so either way its just hard. The issue with ret into fury is the nature of their talents being somewhat armor based. They have sancitifed plates and Dusk thingy which gives them armor when they use smthn i forgot what exactly. So u just do less dmg to rets since ure purely a physcial dmg spec. This is why casters dont have the same issue killing rets.

if hes good hell also prevent u from ccing his healer with sanc which lines up with ur shockwave so u cant realiably cross cc. He could also just kite ur burst with freedom, horse.

Im pretty convinced at this point, that both are hard counters to Fury, i mean i knew that mage always was and more so Frost. But i thought ret would be more manageble. It seems it isnt sadly. Ure not really able to pick up shatter without losing something good imo, now that we play shockwave so thats another issue, so ure basically reliant on ur teammate purging or md bubble, which generally is just a sht feeling. Try and punish a badly used wall by saving ur cds and bursting him afterwards is my tip.

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Jeez most cancerous spec tired of ret :laughing:

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Just had a retri get nuked to smitherens by a sp and fire mage…

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Yeah i made a simular observation, although mages and all clothies still take alot of damage, if i catch the mage once i´ll rip his arms off like a gorilla! Rets are far more annoying since its harder to get favorable trades since they kinda just sit there n trade better due to having a ton of armor n dealing a ton of magic damage in return.

Mages with their endless slows does annoy me more though. I dont like CC overall though i think its absurd, sub rogues layering 3-4 stuns on you keeping you from playing for 10 secounds straight etc shouldnt even be a thing. CC isnt fun n theres way too much of it in the game. Im of course fine with cc existing its more so the fact that diminishing returns on the same source of CC needs to be like trippled.

I suppose i cant complain too much, fury is super strong currently n i feel like im countering far more classes than i have counters myself.

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This is all very true. The only reason people have forgotten about ret is because of the caster fiesta. I guess ret damage is kind of fine even though it is high, but the defensive utility is still disgustingly overtuned.

At least as jungle they feel like a hard counter. They are extremely difficult to take down within setups, and if you don’t focus them they can easily deny kill windows on other targets. Their defensives are far too strong for being on such a low cd, they are almost never out of answers.

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Means he doesn’t play dispel against Fire Mage. He should dispel Ignite on CD so Fire Mage does way less dmg.

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So… warriors have forgotten they have shattering throw?
look through papers and looking at sites like wowarenalogs

Hmm, documents here seems to suggest rets dies more than most specs in high RSS… I guess thats wrong unless its all on being caster meta…

looks through papers again
Looks like priest and warriors can destroy their strongest defensive in the game, making an 8 sec divine shield into a 1-2sec.

looks through papers again
Some specs can either purge or steal BoP and freedom.

In the end, there will always be counters to specs but it would also be interesting to see where rets are standing in its current form if blizzard rly wants to make it melee meta again.

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You ‘know the caster issue’ but opt to nerf ret paladins out of all classes first and foremost. Huh?

Even if we get tuning, ret pala still wouldn’t be the first to go, not even the 4th or the 5th. People have a tendency to demand nerfs for the weirdest stuff in the weirdest orders just based on shuffle representation.

Oh no, a class exists in the game that isn’t a pure damage cannon. Better get rid of it, cus the turret training dummy meta is so much more fun. Ret was always the utility/peel machine, and I’m glad its back =) You were a sub-tank/support or a healer in the past, I don’t see why its so problematic that they’re that now as well? If anything nerf the burst potential and buff team sustain.

Herein lies the problem. RNG setting where skillsets are randomized and experience is thrown out the window. You play warrior. Why are you even talking about shuffles? If we nerfed classes based on RSS performance / representation, warrior would get deleted right off the bat.

Here’s a concept that works;

Don’t try to kill the ret.

Trust me mate, the full melee lobbies are a hail mary occurrence atm. I’ve had lobbies where I’m facing Ele/Afflo/Boomie as the sole melee, and oh boy oh oby is it fun. :slight_smile: Bubble first global cus shield is dead to a random 200k full moon proc and other funzie stuff like that.

Wait you actually figured out the answer to your own problem? You win if your team doesn’t play bad? Shocker.

TL:DR your issue is that ret doesn’t die, (which was the whole point of the rework, ret paladin was a squishy training dummy that got globaled in a single cheap shot/bolt every time, if they didn’t bubble /trinkbop immediately) and because of that they should be nerfed to the ground again.

99% of the rounds I’ve lost have been lost because the enemy team does not tunnel me, but rather switches on defensives/cc’s me on burst/sanc windows to guarantee kills on the 2nd target. It’s not rocket science, and as far as I can tell there’s only 2-3 more ret paladins on elite range as opposed to Warriors.

Should we also delete warriors bc of that?

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disgusting lay of hands
https://ibb.co/6vG7bSt
lock is slightly ahead…x4 :joy:
https://ibb.co/8Mpr8F4

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Almost forgot about lay on hands :smile: yea that particular ability is no problem.

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If you play fury, how can you complain about the ret if fury, hunt survi and dh are the only viable melees in this meta. Right now the ret can only stand out when there is no caster or there is only one caster, as soon as double or triple casters come out in a shuffle-only game, the ret does nothing, absolutely nothing. If they nerf the ret, directly delete the class, because if they can barely do anything right now against this meta, much less if they nerf it.

I know that the ret has always been very hated by the community, and people just want the ret to be a dummy and never be able to be competitive. The moment it stands out or has strong points, people cry and they always ask for nerfs, just the usual classes that are usually always strong because they are countered.

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Eh?

Ignite barely had time to tick, he was getting absolutely obliterated.

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Ret is fine. I can not even heal myself or others due to dampening, I remember back in BFA with Wog that worked as Aoe party heal i could Top entire Team as a ret, that was broken but not now. Also Bop/spellward/freedom can be dispelled easily. Sac every 1m is not realy that huge, you can use it to your advantage by doing dmg to the caster/target of it having it active.

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So much wrong with this post haha. Let me correct you:

  1. Ret is nerfed heavy after the rework. So hard that our pvp talents are mostly a joke…
  2. Ret leech healing is nerfed hard meaning its a joke with the solo shuffle dampening.
  3. WoG and FoL are nerfed heavy because our leech was oke… Now after the leech nerf its still left nerfed.
  4. You are a warrior. Disarm a paladin when he uses wings. Trust me those 6 secs will make the paladin lose a lot of uptime on wings.
  5. Shield of vengeance is a joke again after the nerf… its back to being the joke it was pre rework.
  6. Divine proctection? haha that is the joke it was again. When people rather picked shield of vengeance above divine protection because the 20% is nothing seeing most classes just dps you down while have shield of veng and Divine prot…
  7. Paladins have zero mobility… You can just lure them away from your healer. They will never be able to stop your healer for keeping you up.
  8. In Solo Shuffle dampening starts so high that LoH heals for 40% after like 2 mins haha. That is a WoG crit heal at the start of the fight haha.
  9. The only time a paladin LoH himself is as he has the luck to have survived 2 burst goes haha and than it does nothing. If he starts with it he cant bubble for 30 secs and his other cooldowns are useless against burst.
  10. A full melee group and ret wont always go 6/0 wen the game has a DK or a DH the paladin is not the one going 6/0. Trust me the DK or DH will always be higher.
  11. You just need 1 of the following casters and the paladin will go 0/6 if they know how to play: Firemage, Warlock, Boomkin, Shadowpriest. All these 4 can not be killed by a paladin and are able to kill a paladin in 2/3 GCD.
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Basically no one plays shatter, because of having to pick shockwave. Also its not like u can line shatter and its a long cast. By the time u get shatter off theres like 3 seconds left of bubble, if u dont get spamm ccd.