Do we have a canonical statement that they were actually part of the Alliance/Aware of what was happening by that point?
We didn’t see allied races getting involved until the battle for Lordaeron.
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I guess Turalyon was shopping in Stormwind during Before the Storm? And we had Allied races introduced in game quite before the conflict.
Turalyon being in Stormwind proves nothing. He was in Stormwind before the Alliance recruited the Lightforged.
Narrative restrictions. The same ones that kept Sylvanas from simply teleporting her army by using her knew Nightborne allies.
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Except he is the leader of the Lightforged and played the role of Anduin’s tactical advisor? And he was in Stormwind with the Lightforged, so eh. Methinks you are heavily grasping at straws to explain what is basically:
I would recommend we don’t try to write or make up Blizzard’s own fiction. They are a multi-million dollar company with access to professional writers.
If a story is flawed, then a story is flawed, and we should let the intellectual property owners fix it or ignore it as they please, for better or worse.
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Also, I could act like you guys with the Vindicaar now and start inventing reasons why teleporting wouldn’t work. Funny thing is, I even have a canon source for this, but I agree with you overall, so eh.
No he wasn’t there with the Lightforged. He was in the embassy alone until he offered to talk to the army about them joining the Alliance.
The only Lightforged presence on Azeroth prior to recruiting them was on Azuremyst and it seems the Draenei as a whole were entirely ignorant of the War of Thorns for whatever reason (Which is another Blizzard narrative blunder altogether).
At the end of the day my point was that the Vindicaar is in use, practically to it’s full extent, now. Much of the controversy seems to come from people exaggerating it’s power such as by claiming it’s capable of:
It’s been numerous occasions in which the narrative itself hinders what would’ve been logical story progression or natural character reaction.
And when I say ‘narrative restrictions’ I refer to both deus ex Machina explanations, and vague or hand waved explanations a posteriori.
Not only bad narrative or storytelling barriers artificially created for engagement.
(And the timestamp for the recruitment of both allied races, is one of those possible explanations).
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Nope, he was with the Lightforged. Further more, the recruiting quest for the Lightforged was done in Legion pre-patch, ages before the war. But I will sum it up like another example of you living in denial.
Not true, as it is said that the draenei are exhausted and that some of them did go to the fight.
Teleporting large detachments of troops across wast distances.
Nope. He wasn’t.
In terms of gameplay, yes. But keep in mind that allied races were a pre-order bonus. Which makes the timline a little muddy as far as canon is concerned. Saying that allied races weren’t recruited until after Teldrassil is a valid excuse that Blizzard could make. Especially since NO Allied races were involved in the War of Thorns. At all. No Highmountain, Nightborne, Void Elves or Lightforged besides the player.
Then perhaps the Lightforged were yet to arrive as Azuremyst by that time. Again, until we know the actual canon timeline of events it’s pointless debating this.
In use. In Drustvar.
I’ve always thought they haven’t been using the vindicaar in this war because of how easily the fleet has been dispatched. They don’t use airships too for that reason (?) yes they would reach to, let’s say, Zuldazar or Orgrimmar and do many damages, but they would also be easily bombed from the ground since they’re big and slow, and losing so easily the vindicaar wouldn’t be advisable. It would have to stay far away and fire from a great distance, but IMO the vindicaar is more of a troops transport kind of ship rather than a war one (even if it’s armed). Then I could be totally wrong too of course, but I gave myself this explanation, and this is the whole reason for the Alliance to attack so “stealthily” until the siege.
Their fleet has been destroyed, so they start covert missions to take out the fleet from the ground. But still, trying to reach cities with a Gunship or the Vindicaar its still too dangerous maybe, or the backfire could be greater than the benefits from an air raid (?)
I’ll note again that mass teleporting is a rather common tactic that predates the appearance of the Vindicaar.
And regarding how it’s usage can be hindered, so far we’ve seen it deploy it’s beacons only when hovering above the terrain they are deploying them on.
Not anywhere, nor from a limitless distance.
So we can assume that someone would be unwilling to risk it needlessly and open it up to enemy fire. Same as it’s gun usage.
Leaving aside stuff like fuel, or countering measures while fighting guys that thanks to Argus, intimately know how said ship works.
Again, this all depends on the narrative restrictions they want to write it with.
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Yes, he was. Shown both in-game and in novel, serving as Anduin’s tactical advisor. Further more, he is the racial leader of the Lightforged Draenei as seen on relevant pages, so eh. I am currently studying the novel because you are a stubborn thing, but all the evidence runs against you.
Anyway, the point here is relatively simple. What amuses me is that you Hordies are downplaying the power of the Vindicaar simply because you do not have it, ignoring the lore in the process. And frankly, I find that hilarious.
“That space ship the Alliance has sucks.”
“Yeah, its so limited they can’t even use it!”
“I bet they don’t even have fuel!”
“The lasers are weak.”
Seriously guys, get a grip. Everyone understands narrative shackles both sides, but you are legitimately hilarious.
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The draenei most likely have suffered major losses in fighting on Argus. Canon wise, they evacuated Azuremyst after the WoT started. For the Army of the Light however, considering their older opponent, such losses should not have hindered their later combat at all.
It has literally -zero- airtime in BfA. Discounting the LF racial (gameplay reasons), we don’t even get WQs where the Vindicaar is used as a ‘call in artillery’.
Melts through three walls thicker (And almost certainly stronger) than Orgrimmar’s walls - no problem. Destroying a city beneath it? Suddenly a problem. Wat?
I suggest that people look for the Vindicaar beacon right outside the SW embassy. I know for a fact that LF chars can see it. It’s just a click and oh! (if you’re a LF) You’re up on the Vindicaar talking with Kap-Tain Fareeya.
EDIT: So you know I’m not making things up - https:/
/cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516649456582656014/534382964226916362/unknown.png
Stormwind beacon says hello.
Shields, impervious to most Legion heavy artillery, says hello.
Not really. Spending some time around a complex structure tells one nothing unless they have prior experience working with similar components/designs. That crystal tech they use is beyond most Alliance/Horde races. The belves have the most experience but these are LF not draenei. They have highly competent security and tactics [See Argus campaign for details].
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Turalyon was there before the War of Thorns. Yes. But the Lightforged didn’t join until he personally approached them with the offer. Again, re-watch the lightforged recruitment questline.
It doesn’t suck, it was instrumental to the defense of Drustvar.
They’re not weak, they’re just not capable of
Physically it’s not present, but it is in usage for it’s teleportation capabilities. Do the Drustvar Incursion on Horde.
Yes. It can melt walls. Orgrimmar’s gate wouldn’t stand a chance against it. Doesn’t mean it can destroy the entire city with a single blast or we wouldn’t have had to crawl through Antorus.
Try and follow the conversation. My argument in the quoted section was that the army of the light weren’t in stormwind until Turalyon recruited them which might not have been until AFTER the War of Thorns as far as the canon timeline is concerned.
I explicitly said Deploy them.
Good to know the Horde isn’t using Legion artillery.
There are two different quests in Drustvar, that have Troll magic bypassing those shields. One that has Rokhan destroying an army of mechs with some Tikki Masks, and another one that has a troll shaman using some spirit spell combined with voodoo, that makes the player wreck LF barricades with those shields, near their Drustvar base.
Again, narrative. Everything is used in whatever way writers want it to be used. The Vindicaar weaponry has already been shown to have tangible flaws to be exploited.
As every other weapon in WoW.
We know where the engine is, where the control room is, and we know it’s fuel. We know how everything is distributed inside the ship, and what powers both its defensive and offensive capabilities, as we personally helped the LF arm them.
We even know who would the Horde would need to target, if they wanted to negate them a pilot.
Not true. You did not do the quest line properly, apparently.
High Exarch Turalyon believes upholding the Alliance’s ideals would be a worthy cause for the Lightforged and offers the Army of the Light’s services to High King Anduin Wrynn. With King Wrynn’s endorsement, Turalyon and one of the class order leaders travel to the Vindicaar, still apparently home to the Lightforged, to announce the Army of the Light’s acceptance into the Alliance.[4]
What is this crap even? He is their leader, their commanding officer, the man in charge. He has been in Stormwind since the Legion’s Aftermath, the Lightforged have been in Stormwind since the Legion’s Aftermath. Did you see that giant space ship with which we escaped Argus with?
Do you know where it was parked? Stormwind! There’s a god-damn beacon in there! But the best argument you came up with is: “Oh, they didn’t join. The fact that their leader pledged fealty before the War and then served as Anduin’s tactical advisor doesn’t count, no. They did not join.”
Bah. Seriously?
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Ho boy… The Vindicaar again…
Right, lets start with “Whoever in Blizz thought this was a sensible idea needs a kick in the pants, as it breaks lore”
Velen “We have used parts of the Exodar to build this ship”
No mate. We were just told you had canonically -fixed- The Exodar. That’s its current state…I mean what did you build the Vindicaar out of? The cup holders and arm rests? That’s not how repairing something works! You can’t crash a car, rebuild the car as it was and go “Oh, We had enough spare bits to make a motorbike” That just makes no sense!
Also, you never even -built- the Exodar in the first place, the Naaru did!
Next point. “The Vindicaar can nuke stuff from Orbit”
Well, we never see it do that. I mean it definitely, does not do that. If you mean ‘From above’ then yes, but every race in WoW has that capability. You can do that with a Wyvern or Gryphon. The only time we see it use its power canonically, is when it has descended and is attackable from ground artillery. Otherwise, it makes no sense! How is its Sister ship shot down? Surely it could just take off and fly above anti-air artillery? If the Vindicaar can bombard things from orbit, then why does it descend into range of attack from the ground to attack Antorus? Why risk it?
Next up “But the Light Forged Draenei Racial…says they can do it!”
Well yeah, it does. A few problems there. The Game also says I killed Arthas, and Deathwing, and Kael’thas, Kil’jaeden and loads others.
If you accept the fact that the Vindicaar -can- fire from orbit, then you have to accept one of two factors.
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There are Infinite Vindicaar’s that can pew pew the world, because theoretically two different LFD could use their racial at the same time on different sides of the planet. That’s not how Orbital strikes work. I mean that is emphatically, -not- how they work.
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The Vindicaar’s Laser pew pew gun is about powerful enough to kill a Gnoll. So it really isn’t anything to worry about.
That is why the Vindicaar is a -stupid- thing to implement.
Its either useless, or vulnerable, or alternatively, impossible.
They really needed to up their game on that. They made a bad mistake, and didn’t learn from it, compounding it with Jaina’s Pew Pew Magic flying ship.
Why! Why! Why would you do that, when you -already- have a Deus ex Machina ship?
So yeah, You can’t really justify the Vindicaar. No one can. And I think Blizzard have realised this and are trying to quietly back away.
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Until this point. They weren’t part of the Alliance.
Only Turalyon.
Make a Lightforged. Go into the Vindicaar. Look outside the window.
I know Humans have a high opinion of themselves and they like to think ALL of Azeroth belongs to them, but that ain’t stormwind.
A beacon that only arrives after Turalyon calls it down. It’s not there before then and neither are the Lightforged. Lightforged only appear in Stormwind after they’ve been formally inducted into the Alliance.
Once again. This conversation is pointless until we know EXACTLY when the Lightforged recruitment quest takes place. From what it looks like Allied races were only recruited before the battle for Lordaeron. Otherwise we’d have seen Void Elves and Nightborne teleporting to Darkshore too with their fancy portals.