#SomeChanges needed for PvP

[Tophz-gehennas]

Since no one actually wants #nochanges when it comes to PvP, and instead most actually want #somechanges (many of which were implemented in later expansions - but should’ve been implemented much sooner, had it not been for the low priority of PvP to Blizzard).

For obvious issues here is a list:

General

• Update the maps to the versions from late MoP (with staircases on Blade’s Edge & Dalaran, minor updates to Lordaeron)
• Remove RNG parry/dodge/block from PvP. Replace it with a suitable permanent passive melee damage reduction instead
• Rework all RNG miss/resistance passives/buffs from some classes & races in PvP (if the player has the x% hit rating that’s needed to be “capped” there shouldn’t be some stupid cases where 2% extra and spell penetration is needed, and there being no chance to prepare for it)
• Remove RNG spell resists completely on melee classes/specs in PvP (melee’s cannot be expected to get both spell hit capped & melee hit capped - not to mention spell penetration)
• Remove random spell reflect meta gems (etc) from PvP
• Remove random 10-50% chances for things to fail (e.g., Evasion having 50% and 25% chance for melee and ranged respectively, and Cloak having only 95% chance), rework it to be either 100% or 0%
• Make Shadowmeld work like it did in Cata and beyond (i.e. no bs with it not working at all if someone in your party is in combat - even if that is “how it was in WotLK”)

Hunter

• Trap arming/activation time is too long, it seems it only “checks” if it should trigger once every 2 seconds which is ridiculous and completely unreliable

Feral & Rogue

• Remove the positional requirement from Shred & Backstab. People backpeddling onto edges or into corners to make it impossible to attack them from behind without falling off / not possible to ever get behind because of walls is just obnoxious

Feel free to add more obvious examples of #somechanges that are needed.

PS: Fix all the bugs.

---

Secret Spicy Proposals

• Make knockbacks DR
• Disable Heroism in Arena
• Create exact copies of the PvE gear from raids which is obtainable from and usable in instanced PvP only.

[Herbertwest-mirage-raceway]

are these not all features of retail that did not appear in WotLK?

[Tophz-gehennas]

@Herbertwest-mirage-raceway

are these not all features of retail that did not appear in WotLK?

Yes, therefore the usage of the “#SomeChanges” hashtag. But I can only assume you are oblivious to the meaning of this hashtag.

PS: Just because you hate retail, doesn’t mean that everything in retail is bad, or worse than WotLK.

[Belhus-golemagg]

This is one of the most unwanted things I saw in this forum. RNG was always fun in PVP. Even if backfire to me often. I really miss a random stun as a shadow. It was so fun. Whatabout cancel crit chance too if you dont like RNG so much. “Remove parry/dodge/block” holy moly

[Herbertwest-mirage-raceway]

@Tophz-gehennas

@Herbertwest-mirage-raceway

are these not all features of retail that did not appear in WotLK?

Yes, therefore the usage of the “#SomeChanges” hashtag. But I can only assume you are oblivious to the meaning of this hashtag.

PS: Just because you hate retail, doesn’t mean that everything in retail is bad, or worse than WotLK.

I don’t hate retail - it’s a different version of the game though.

SomeChanges is a far cry from simply implementing the Retail combat engine for all classes into WotLK PvP.

We knew that WotLK would have a different engine, start in a later patch and have accelerated content roll-out.

But we also knew that is was a version of the game - the last of 3 - that did not have any class balance and where the PvP experience would be vastly different that Retail

[Meristu-silvermoon]

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove the positional requirement from Shred & Backstab. People backpeddling onto edges or int

oof xDDDDD

[Herbertwest-mirage-raceway]

@Meristu-silvermoon

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove the positional requirement from Shred & Backstab. People backpeddling onto edges or int

oof xDDDDD

Imagine not being able to stand against a wall to stop somebody stabbing you in the back - it’s a fantasy game for sure - but standing against a wall or on the edge of a cliff seems a perfectly legitimate way to prevent being stabbed in the back

[Beckeeh-nethergarde-keep]

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove the positional requirement from Shred & Backstab. People backpeddling onto edges or into corners to make it impossible to attack them from behind without falling off / not possible to ever get behind because of walls is just obnoxious

reduce the dmg the of feral/rogues, so we dont have to backpedal into the edges to survive more than 5seconds.

[Losboyos-ravencrest]

Seems to me like Dragonflight might be to your liking. Obviously you’re not a big fan of how WOTLK was/is

[Bafago-golemagg]

What PvP needs is

1. Solving arena participation by making it more casual friendly and by allowing cross-realm grouping for arenas,
2. restrict PvE trinkets in arena before ICC comes and madness happens (this problem also affects PvE playerbase in form of loot drammas and ninja looting due to PvP).

Points you mention are minor problems each affecting only specific portion of PvP playerbase. I am all for solving those as well, but not before general problems that affect whole PvP playerbase such as ones I mention above.

[Tendotti-thekal]

Buff reth palas please worst dps class in pve

[Hurutosepe-thekal]

As an active PvP player with pserver experience, some of this I agree with, some definitely not.

@Tophz-gehennas

Update the maps to the versions from late MoP (with staircases on Blade’s Edge & Dalaran, minor updates to Lordaeron)

This could be a good idea, I’d support it, especially the stairs. The way some comps have an insta win on Z-axis maps is crazy, especially considering they removed ring of valor.

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove RNG parry/dodge/block from PvP. Replace it with a suitable permanent passive melee damage reduction instead

I don’t think this is a good idea. Having dodge/block/parry chance makes micromanaging your position important, it’s a core skill for a melee player. Always hit your enemy from behind if you can. If you move better than the opposing melee, you’ll be rewarded by less frequent dodges/parries, which makes it skill expressive. In addition, this would heavily re-adjust the importance of stuns against high avoidance targets, and I’d like to avoid massive class balance changes.

@Tophz-gehennas

Rework all RNG miss/resistance passives/buffs from some classes & races in PvP (if the player has the x% hit rating that’s needed to be “capped” there shouldn’t be some stupid cases where 2% extra and spell penetration is needed, and there being no chance to prepare for it)

I could take it or leave it tbh. I like the extra layer of intricacy, the paladins having to decide between resistances vs concentration, priests having to dispel/reapply shadow resist etc.

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove RNG spell resists completely on melee classes/specs in PvP (melee’s cannot be expected to get both spell hit capped & melee hit capped - not to mention spell penetration)

Same as above, and they absolutely CAN be expected to do it. It depends on the season a bit, but both DKs and ferals are expected to get their penetration cap eventually (I played both classes on pservers and always had my cap).

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove random spell reflect meta gems (etc) from PvP

Agree.

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove random 10-50% chances for things to fail (e.g., Evasion having 50% and 25% chance for melee and ranged respectively, and Cloak having only 95% chance), rework it to be either 100% or 0%

Agree, get it to 100%, IF the CD or the duration is nerfed in exchange to remain balanced. Twice as much dodge chance for half the duration.

@Tophz-gehennas

Make Shadowmeld work like it did in Cata and beyond (i.e. no bs with it not working at all if someone in your party is in combat - even if that is “how it was in WotLK”)

Sure, agree.

@Tophz-gehennas

Trap arming/activation time is too long, it seems it only “checks” if it should trigger once every 2 seconds which is ridiculous and completely unreliable

The arming duration is a bit random right now, which is a bug. The baseline activation time however, is perfectly fine: If you shoot your trap in time after a scatter, the enemy won’t have a gap to use a sac. Just need to click fast . So, to recap: this isn’t a change that’s needed, this is a bugfix that’s needed. The way this ability is supposed to work is perfectly fine.

@Tophz-gehennas

Remove the positional requirement from Shred & Backstab. People backpeddling onto edges or into corners to make it impossible to attack them from behind without falling off / not possible to ever get behind because of walls is just obnoxious

Definitely not. This would also make it necessary to rework other things about the class to not make it absolutely broken. It would necessitate a way deeper change in the identity of those classes. Not to mention that these classes are not at all in a bad place balance-wise, making this buff unwarranted IMO.

@Tophz-gehennas

Make knockbacks DR

Didn’t wrath limit the knockbacks you can get in a cast? I’m not 100% sure since casts are already so quick most of the time that you can’t notice, but I remember something along the lines of “your cast can only get knockbacked twice”. If I remember this correctly, then this is already in the game.

@Tophz-gehennas

Disable Heroism in Arena

You might as well ban shamans tbh, not a fan.

@Tophz-gehennas

Create exact copies of the PvE gear from raids which is obtainable from and usable in instanced PvP only.

Big yes, this would finally make it non-mandatory to participate in PvE, while not impacting PvE players. The demand is clearly there (look at PvP-only fun servers). This would be groundgreaking stuff, which is why it sounds too goot to be true.

Some more tame suggestions I have:

• Ready check crystals (literally no downside)
• Some form of dampening, to prevent 30min long games. This will be more and more of an issue as the seasons advance, because healers will completely stop going oom. Already ele+hpal teams have 10+ minute long games against every heal+dps, sometimes even longer. I don’t care if it’s a heal redu or a damage increase, I don’t care if it starts immediately or after 10 minutes of gameplay, just have SOMETHING in place to stop stalemates.
• Extra cosmetic rewards above 2k rating, that don’t influence gameplay but gives high-rated players something to work toward, even when not near the season’s end.
• FIX THE DALARAN JUMP BUG FOR GOD’S SAKE
• Add cross-realm queueing, so that PvP players aren’t forced to play on Firemaw/Gehennas if they want to find partners.

[Tedra-transcendence]

Overall Gameplay

• Remove fun

[Yzzie-drakthul]

Probably worst proposals i’ve seen in my entire life. Imo if there are supposed to be changes it should be quality of life changes (for example how soul shards work atm compared to tbc) not gameplay/gearing changes.
Those proposals are not even #somechanges but omegahuge changes. While maps are kinda unbalanced stairs etc. buff warriors which are broken already and are going to be even more broken. Same with Parry/block etc. I mean it would disable many talents/spells and change the way tank spec works etc. Sounds like a disaster to me. When it comes to those + 2% hit etc. Thats again indirect buff to humans who are already the best race for most classes. +Its not even an issue just fix your gear. Also i dont see whats wrong with 1% reflect meta gem since youre losing rather huge bonuses for this unreliable thing. When it comes to evasion/cloak - rogues are broken and deserve to be punished atleast sometimes. Overall idk absolute disaster and you didnt even mention sacred cleansing which is the biggest offender when it comes to resists.
Dampening sounds like a buff to warriors so idk just dont play 2s if you dont have mentality for it? Or play double dps or something?
Actually reading this im happy Blizzard doesn’t read forums.

[Caddie-earthshaker]

Yeah. you wrote what i wanted to say, so yeah. i agree 100 % with you. On “private” server, they added some things that really helped with rng like sacred cleansing rework to dispel 2 magic chance instead of 30 % resist. ( I have as priest 20 % resist on dispel and 10-15 % on fears and i m capped- that counts whole session and there aren’t a lot classes who can do it ). Basicaly, less rng is usually good thing.

Above all changes (while i agree that they would help a lot) , by adding pve items available from arena (prolly not big rating req) i bet we would see big increase of participation. Atm people do not have reason to play pvp and “reward” to have fun is really high cap celling even at low rating.

One more thing, i expect without changes, next season there will be 50-60 % less players. Some people tried to play pvp, didnt find it fun and they will not play again(they cant delete team atm). if you count that 50 % couldn’t even buy gloves, it’s normal that they won’t play again.