Someone PLEASE explain me this Outlaw Rogue PvP nerfs...please

PVP Arenas
61

Yes there are balance issues . And those are not just at the lower, middle or top. Its all of them.

Yes, and it took them 3 months to fix it, or even slightly address it, because apparently they thought it’S fine for R1 playstyle, and the entire ladder suffered because of it.

Yea, just remove rewards entirely and just make it percentage and you wont have to bother about MMR/CR. MMR could even be removed at that point and ppl only face eachother based on CR.

No need to remove the rewards, just base them around the participation pool and make them dynamic, not end-season rewards. Start on e.g. week 3 and you’re good to go, that way there will always be people trying to get to a certain percentage of the playerpool throughout the season; except gladiators ofc, which should remain 50 wins above elite, however elite etc. should be percent-based, to create a consistent, dynamic reward system.

Its easier because you dont have to take into account several factors like stun, cc, MS effect etc.
While you need to do that for PvP.

Sure. That’s their job. Why they’re not doing it is the problem.

Thats not entirely what I asked though. I asked for the entire PvP playerbase that shows ppl from 2100+ are within the 95% (meaning only 5% are above 2100+) percentile out of every single one who played PvP. I tried to find that part myself which I couldnt.

You could probably do some mental gymnastics and calculate or guesstimate it, however specific numbers are of no significance, what you need to know is the percentages and how they fluctuate to determine how crappy the system is, but we all know that already. As I said, if you wanna do the maths yourself, compare DF seasons with SL and BfA based on the percentage of accounts that reach the achievements in the given season which you can find on Data For Azeroth, since that calculation skips the needs for a concrete numeral value entirely, the fact that the playerbase is declining is another different problem entirely. (I can almost guarantee you though that nowadays, S2 and S3 DF probably had 0 people that are 0-2.1 within the top 5 %, S1 probably had some since the difference between S1 and S2 glads is over 150 %, meaning the gauss curve had very different numbers in S1 and S2.) If you wanna be bothered with it, go to DfA site, look up data for BfA/SL/DF Gladiators, then do the same for Duelists, and put the values into a ratio calculator. You can also compare it to Legion and WoD since those had duelist ratings too. And as for current season numbers, you can calculate, or guesstimate, that off of checkpvp numbers, I’ve done some of that before. (They used to provide you with the entire playerpool, or at least most of it, since you were able to hide your profile, however nowadays they only provide numbers from 1201 cr above for old and 1501 cr above for rss respectively.)

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I would not fault R1 players for that. Blizz have a history of ignoring balancing every now and then for weeks/months without even uttering a single word. I believe majority of ppl (me included) are upset and fed up with the long period of silence that keeps happening for literally no reason. Its the most stupid thing blizz keeps doing over and over. Its not difficult for blizz to make a blue post with “We are aware of the situation and are currently in discussion on how to handle certain things.” which could even be posted every week just to make sure ppl atleast know they are “cooking” something.

It was the same thing last season, I literally got fed up with m+ because of aug evokers dominance and their inability to properly fix it.

So, lets say they did balancing patches every or every other week, how many ppl would complain as much? Would ppl still be mad about DHs if they actually got balanced properly months ago if they did faster balancing?
Im always more happy when I see them actually caring for their playerbase. Im just fed up with their silence.

I agree that they could atleast update the reward system. How it would be im not entirely sure what would be for the best of all worlds.

Yes its their job, but also why I said its easier to do it in PvE for obvious reasons compared to PvP. But its their job and they should do it, its what the PvP side of playerbase is paying for.

You talked like you knew that ppl above 2100+ were 5% only during SL S2 and not more which is why I asked for statistics that showed what I thought you knew.

But its also quite impossible to fully know unless you can calculate the entire PvP playerbase who touched 3v3 during SL S2 and how many of those achieved 2100+ and if alts changes the statistics for it overall.

But we know the current system isnt the best and they need to make srs changes to the MMR system to avoid inflations/deflations so its the same every single season so ppl know what they need to do to earn something. Its frustrating for alot of players where one season can be massively inflated and the rewards are basically “free” while other seasons is harder so they feel inferior compared to previous seasons.

2 Likes
63

So, lets say they did balancing patches every or every other week, how many ppl would complain as much? Would ppl still be mad about DHs if they actually got balanced properly months ago if they did faster balancing?
Im always more happy when I see them actually caring for their playerbase. Im just fed up with their silence.

Indeed, they genuinely behave as if they didn’t even care and wanted the gamemode specifically dead.

You talked like you knew that ppl above 2100+ were 5% only during SL S2 and not more which is why I asked for statistics that showed what I thought you knew.

I wasn’t talking about SL s2 specifically, I was talking about how it generally is, moreless. I could probably try to look up some numbers and do the calculations, but it was more of a guesstimation anyway. I’m pretty sure I’d done the numbers before though, whenever they were relevant to the season, I used to check them fairly frequently back in the seasons.

1 Like
65

There, I found something (11.7.2022, so this is SL s3 data, not s2, 3 weeks before end of the season, so these were the “regular” season data).

random trivia:

Highest EU rating in 2s:
3004
People that currently are 2.4+ in 2s / people that have any number of games played on EU:
2607 out of 160495 (1.62 %)

Highest NA rating in 2s:
2838
People that currently are 2.4+ in 3s / people that have any number of games played on NA:
1331 out of 204228 (0.65 %)
_

Highest EU rating in 3s:
3176
People that currently are 2.4+ in 2s / people that have any number of games played on EU:
1725 out of 147224 (1.17 %)

Highest NA rating in 3s:
3269
People that currently are 2.4+ in 3s / people that have any number of games played on NA:
3484 out of 126817 (2.75 %)

In theory, with those numbers you should be able to guesstimate relatively concretely what the S2 numbers were, if you wanna be bothered with that. You can also probably imagine by now that 5 % being 2.1+ is not unrealistic at all, it’s in fact probably close to 10 %+ in s2, to be honest, and that wouldn’t be a bad thing.

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I understand the point of it, but im also not entirely sure what kind of season S3 and S4 were counted as in terms of “inflation/normal” or anything. Just know S2 were massively inflated, so it makes it abit more difficult to accurately point out how many % of playerbase were above 2100.

Seems like the 3s rating is slowly creeping up into the same “rating” as S3 but its just less populated is my guess. But we also dont know how long until S4 (which seems like we might get info on soon?)
My guess is atleast pirate patch next week (dont think its wednesday but they can surprise me) and after that instant PTR for S4.

But S3 of SL started 1 March 2022 and S4 started 2 August 2022. So my guess is S3 ended 26th july. - 22 weeks otherwise its 23 weeks.

DF S3 started November 14 2023 and now its 11 march. - 17 weeks from tomorrow. So if it would follow through with what those S3 SL statistics say (if it would be roughly the same) those ratings would be achievable in 2-3 weeks. Which isnt likely xd

But I am also not sure what is supposedly “normal” rating for a “normal” season. Too much variation.

I usually dont like guessworking since im usually more wrong than right with that. Kinda why I dislike ppl asking me “What do you guess my age is” for example lol. I think too much >_>
But, im not refuting the 5% above 2100+, I were refuting only 5%. Considering its supposedly massive inflation it would mean it was way more than 5% above 2100+ amongst the PvP playerbase. Could prob be ppl who just played a few games and then stopped so im not entirely sure on this part.
I have no issues balancing things for every part of the playerbase, I just dont like dumbing down specs potential for the sake of making worse players feel better when they just need to train and get better. Rewarding players who dont want to put in any effort that is.
There are ppl that argue about m+20 to make it either free or jail players to boost them.

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I understand the point of it, but im also not entirely sure what kind of season S3 and S4 were counted as in terms of “inflation/normal” or anything.

S2 was inflated, S3 was regular, S4 was deflated.

those ratings would be achievable in 2-3 weeks. Which isnt likely xd

mhm xdd SL S3 is what a moreless “normal” season looked like. It was one of the seasons that were fairly evenly distributed, nothing was too easy or too hard, it was short enough and there was no cr bottleneck (I remember hitting duelist on week 3 with 72 % winrate).

I usually dont like guessworking since im usually more wrong than right with that.

You can guesstimate it by taking the added-up numbers of 2.4 (ignoring RBG as that’S a minority anyway) and match it with the percentages of individual seasons, then calculate individual CR values and skim forums to see if there were any more number data, and based on that you can see somewhat concrete numbers that would be moreless correct; alternatively, you can attempt to put the numbers onto the gauss curve, which should be a relatively good start, but yeah, it’s a lot of work, and generally not worth the effort. However yes, in S2 I’m fairly certain the duelsit numbers were around 10-15 % participation pool, depending whether you count alts on the same account etc.

There are ppl that argue about m+20 to make it either free or jail players to boost them.

M20 is free for the most part, it’s like the early mythic raid bosses at most, so basically something like Rival 2/Duelist, depending on the season.

68

Yea, when I did read that I kinda went “god no” since its def not worth the effort for really no good argument in general >_>

I have a slight feeling it could be even more, but that would just be me guessing =p

Most of the part if you do the mechanics and aloot of it depends on the affixes. I would say majority of it would be around duelist and could potentially be slightly harder depending on affixes. Obv this is counted towards non-boosting and actually doing things yourself x)
But this seasons m+ has been quite chill and easy for the most part. So I would prob say 16-18 might be around 1800? But who knows :person_shrugging:

69

Last ssn m+ 15 was the end for the majority, now it´s way better, u see way more peoples at higher keys, but last evoker season was yeah… not that good

also m+ is less stressful, and the barrier to make progress is not as high as it is in pvp currently

70

Last season I only did up to 18 before I just stopped. Evoker season became trash season for me. Literally made me feel disgust about m+ lol for the sole reason that instead of 3 dps fighting for spots, you only have 2. If you didnt play a meta spec you wouldnt rly be invited ^^
This season is extremely chill, havent been bothering to push anything and only done a 23 until I started to play other classes with my friends xd

Just kinda happy another friend came back and actually enjoying m+ so I have another friend to play with even if hes not “that great”. But its fun to see his progress and be there to help him! :+1:

Yea, its kinda why I would say 1800 is like 16-18 which is quite chill, 20s would be around duelist which is still kinda chill in certain ways. Atleast in my opinion x)
But PvE is easier than PvP in the sense of what you need to know beforehand and predict etc. Its kinda why both are fun in their own ways!

1 Like
71

lol yeah, i stopped cuz nobody wanted a feral in 23/24+ keys

thats nice

yeah i heard it, that this season is better to push/play but for me im too lazzy to farm pve gear again : D maybe i give it a try in the next season or xpac

and why it have more players

1 Like
72

those nerfs are good because one of the main problems with outlaw is perma evasion that u get from the float like butterfly talent, and i also never had any problems with outlaw damage, skill issue, so yeah outlaw perma evasion is broken, take your cut is really strong, and outlaw damage it not “hot garbage” if u know what ur doing
Skill issue

73

I mean outlaw dmg its horrible atm on single target (propably lowest in game atm) but outlaw have insane cc and mobility :slight_smile: its rng spec :slight_smile: someone who saying that outlaw do dmg check drdagger on twitch he doing 50k dps as top2 outlaw wihlth 2800cr :slight_smile:

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Learn me how to play outlaw ,bc my dmg its aroubd 50k dps on arena since i reroll :smiley: nooah9708 on discord :smiley:

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they should balance it based on anyone behind 2.1 imo

2.4 right now is top 100 in 2v2 for example, so it literally concern nobody

Make the game balanced and fun for noobs but not too braindead like how is it now, more people would play in any brackets and thus inflating a bit more the ladder
But blizzard should really just do mmr inflation

76

So ignore RSS and 3v3?
I have no clue why you brought up 2v2 as the defining factor for balancing.

Let the chaos circus begin!

77

Yes, rss is only a huge circus and should be rated but not give anything besides legend and r1

I gave you an example, that there is no one playing anyway at the highest level

In 3s there is barely 1000 people at 2.4+, which doesn’t mean 1000 people will get gladiator this season, thats partly because of how poorly the game is balanced, and how mmr is right now

also because game has 10 different versions

Balancing based on people crying in the forums is bad

Balancing so that most people are getting more interested in pvp is good

Make it so 2v2 2.4 is top 8k and 2.4 in 3s is at least top 5k

1 Like
78

What? This makes no sense?

Ah yea, atleast now I know how you argue xd

But those ppl are the same kind of ppl you want to balance around but at the same time saying its bad. Its pretty confusing.
Or did you mean with your “behind 2.1” as in ppl 2.1+ or ppl at 2.1-?

79

you are not even using your brain to answer me

So i’m not bothering anymore

1 Like
80

You gave an example on the lowest populated bracket.
MMR is an issue which they could and should fix so its not inflated/deflation and so they have to inject more MMR for ppl to be happy and play.

You said balancing based on crying on the forum is bad.
But also saying balancing for most ppl is good.
So those on the forum is not considered part of them.

So my question became did you talk about balancing out of 2.1+ or 2.1- which you apparently didnt want to answer. Guess my brain isnt working huh.

Since if you are actively talking about 2.1- then some of them are the ones crying on the forum.

81

???

please consider buying a brain