Arent you the most oppressive class in the game with zero skill required to do dmg or all the bs to the enemy? Are you guys complaining about not enough cc/slows and mobility? Damn…
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Aye my bad. Ye i thought it was 3 min max
Now i feel more confident about training spriest. Thanks :>
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They offer their team fantastic defensive options with War Banner and Duel. I’d mention Safeguard + IP too were it not for the fact that Fury helped itself to the former, while the latter currently feels underwhelming.
Sharpen Blade is also still incredibly strong, even if Fury insists on trying to undermine it with Slaughterhouse.
I think that’s the case for any spec tbh. I know that if I ask for Demonology changes I’ll just get hit with the old “lol they’ve been buffed already. besides, remember DF/Shadowlands???”
Arms has a very strong, fair foundation - I’d argue more so than lots of other specs. Is it perhaps undertuned atm? Yeah, maybe. Could it use some help defensively? I’d say so.
However the fact that it isn’t constantly being overhauled in the way that lots of other specs are (Ret??? Lmfao) is imo testament to that. It’s just unfortunate that the state of the game is so irreparably warped now that having something be “fair” leads to them feeling underpowered.
It’s a sad state of affairs when you can’t help but wonder if it’s less frustrating to just take Hamstring off of your bars, spec into Crackling Thunder and pretend Thunder Clap is your best option kek.
I am 100% sure, there is still a huge delay on War Banner. 7/10 times I would banner right before cheap/kidney and it would still be a full stun with the banner down next to me 
. People who played with banner knows. It’s so unfortunate that banner is such a horrible choice and basicly you should never play a 1hp totem with a short range and a delay on it’s effect.
Duel is a meme as well, like I don’t understand the concept why every warrior defensive comes with a negative effect to it, like ok now I cannot hit this guy because of duel. Now I deal no damage cause D reduces mine damage more than damage received .
Intervene concept to give someone % dam reduction is just outdated in current wow since it NEEDS to be used for uptime basicly every game. Into heavy physical dealers intervene straight up kills you. Many times I’ve witnessed an intervene on my mate soaking the cheap shot ending up with me dying 
.
Also worth noting you can never ever spec out of Sharpen, Commander and Storm, since they are literally mandatory. Without them you cannot compete.
Idk what they can do about Arms because as you said, the foundation is fair, but the spec used to be a heavy hitting distruptor. Nowdays it’s a pve m+ designed bleed machine. I feel like instead of adding gap closers the spec should be scary for the 3 globals of uptime every 10 seconds. 100% uptime should not be a thing. The PvE Arms design nowdays relies on you having 100% uptime, which is basicly never gonna happen. Defensively it’s horrible still cannot use 90% of your buttons while disarmed / garroted. DbtS is objectively the worst defensive in the game. Rallying cry is 10% for a global. They thought adding Impending + spamming ignore pain aka giving Arms hps is a solution but no.
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Even I noticed it a couple of times collecting my free 1.8k mog on Arms back in Shadowlands, ye lmao. Unfortunately it’s a PvP talent so I doubt they’ll ever care to look into fixing it.
Imo Duel makes sense thematically, and I don’t think having to change target to the guy you dueled is a problem when Arms has historically never been the spec to tunnel one guy into oblivion the way Fury is incentivised to do.
Defensive Stance is just impossible to balance in its current state. It will forever ping-pong back and forth between being grossly overpowered and functionally useless until they give it the Bear Form treatment and limit what you can and can’t cast while inside of it.
I think it’s fine. The damage redirection/mitigation should always have been something used for very specific windows anyway. We’ve seen what happens when it’s overtuned and it results in the rest of their team being functionally immortal.
This is a legitimate issue, yeah. Ignore Pain should probably be brought up a little to help combat this, but Ignore Pain itself is another one of those sketchy abilities where it seems to constantly swing between broken and useless.
I don’t agree. It certainly doesn’t hold up as well now as it did when it was first implemented, but there are definitely worse defensives.
Yeah it’s unfortunate. I genuinely think that Arms is pretty well designed as far as modern WoW is concerned, it’s just why bother being well designed or fair in a game where the guy at the top of the food chain is infinitely stronger than you and rerolling is a day away.
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I agree, duel makes sense and is probably fine as it is. I found duel useful into mages back when it was introduced, specifically into RMP. But that was literally it. When I specd duel into rets, those with 10iq would literally tab target me and obliterate me out of existance. So I would have to usually duel DbtS which was a bit too much for wings and also only covered 1/3rd of wings duration . Later in shadowlands I would have to duel ret and leap LoS kite, which was incredibly cringe. Also better mages would block the duel on their go.
Never though about it but that’s lowkey genius. Bear form treatment where you can only use certail spells would be nice. Like back in the day D stance one-hander shield macro.
I don’t really remember intervene being ever broken/gamebreaking. Usually only rogues cry when they forget to cover you.
I guess I expressed myself incorrectly. It is supposed to be an anti-melee defensive. But with the amount of disarms (grapple wep cannot be parried) and attacks that go straight through parry it is no longer an anti-melee defensive, just a % wall.
As I said, all the above mentioned talents are generally impossible to spec into anyway, so yeah. Fury will always have the edge in future since Arms does not bring the utility and peels it once did.
Don’t even wanna mention spell reflect, with the amount of piss flying in all directions.
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Tbh Arms didnt get any cool new toys since Legion or Shadowlands (i didnt play in BFA) where’s other specs are constantly getting them every now and then, also as someone said most of Arms kit has been homogenized into other specs one way or another.
In regards to damage i think the most accurate is this:
I remember the note from the Devs saying they want Fury to be fast-small hits while Arms slow-big hits. However over time Arms damage has been more and more tied to dots or other auto-procs which naturally forced the big-hitter abilities to be toned down.
Also, people in PvP are too bothered with single numbers so they freak out when a single ability can chunk high amount of their health that is why Arms core damage passives/modifiers have been nerfed in PvP by 70% (Martial Prowess/Executioner’s Precision). This led to the spec further loosing its fun part and its identity.
It literally does feel like Mortal Strike and Execute deal less damage with each new expansion.
Arms being undertuned is probably also right. The clear indicator of that for me is always when a Shadow Priest or a Warlock can easily out damage me while im maintaining 100% uptime and being as much disruptive to them as possible.
Warrior kit is kinda naturally countering individual abilities of these classes/specs so when i cant deal more pressure to them than they can to me then i know there’s something wrong here, either with their specs or with mine or both unless they have room for spreading dots at all times to my whole team or im playing just bad but im talking about situations when they really shouldnt out-damage me on the dmg charts and they ALWAYS do even in situations where the game goes perfectly for my offensive kit like they stay close to each other and i can pull near 100% uptime of my Sweeping Strikes, keep Rend on everyone at all times, even Bladestorm/Roar for maximum cleave yet i still close the damage chart.
On a side note after multiple PvE nerfs in a row Bladestorm once again does hit like a wet noodle. Literally ~100k hits with Warbreaker lol.
I really dont know what they should do here but the easiest and the simplest way would be to buff it A LITTLE and wait and then buff it a little again and again if necessary.
But throwing straight up 10-15% buffs on main damage abilities like 3 times in a row - thats not a good idea cuz those are really significant numbers cough shadow priest cough.
I can see Arms being easily too overbuffed and people will probably start complaining again, but then i join a game against a decent (not even good one) Feral/Warlock/SP and i think to myself “how much would they have to buff my spec to be able to pull such numbers? like +20-30% through the roof? holy sh1t”. Thats when all those doubts vanish completely lol.
no you’re thinking about unholy dk / frost mage / havoc dh / assa rogue / feral druid / bm hunter / ele shaman historically.
warrior even when its S tier is generally at least peelable hence why they pretty much have always played with a ret paladin since legion onwards when everyone got 5000000 ways to apply micro cc or make gaps.
its also for this reason that even in seasons warriors do crazy damage, like this season, they’re pretty mid tier until all of the micro CC spammers get nerfed hard enough that warriors can actually play the game.
That didn’t even happen.
- 1st: 10% on a handful of abilities/passives
- 2nd: 4%
- 3rd: 6%
While tuning down AoE and some PvP-related things in compensation.
Warrior had quite some significant ups and downs as well, not much in another league. Both specs/classes, actually, require just some love. No plain buffs or nerfs, just a reconsideration of their core mechanics.
Dunno bro. My clothies sometimes die within one stun against warriors alone, if defs are not available. I dont feel like the dmg is just mid tier, lol. But you are a warrior. Because of mages you feel like mid tier. I get it.
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Might just be time for Arms to get the Destruction Warlock treatment. Tone down Rend and their Mastery while buffing Overpower/Slam/Bladestorm for PvP specifically. Might feel a bit better if their damage profile is skewed towards buttons you actually press instead of ambient background stuff.
Flashbacks to late BFA where you’d lose to an Arms Warrior, check their damage breakdown and find 40% Deep Wounds, 20% Gushing Wound and 40% real abilities kek.
Buffing Bladestorm is a stupid idea. The ability that renders warriors Immune to CC, that allows them to use defensives during Bladestorm should not be exceptionally good in PvP environment. It is like imagine Vilefiend with fire damage would have been more powerful and immune to CC and way faster than he is right now - Demo players would love it, I would have love it, but it would have been absolute pile of tauren crap for other players.
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Eh. As it stands currently the vast majority of Bladestorm’s damage for Arms is just the free Mortal Strikes it triggers via Unhinged anyway.
I can see the apprehension tho.
It’s come to my understanding that players hate high throughput dot classes with a passion.
It doesn’t matter that it’s all pad damage and not meaningful priority targetting, it doesn’t matter if you’re easily shutdown/trained etc. As long as you are a caster + dots players will ask for nerfs the second you peek your head out of the dumpster.
And don’t think one nerf will be enough to soothe all this hatred people have, nono it will take at least three nerfs, to your damage, to your survivability, your utility… until the class is effectively crippled out of the meta and deleted completely , only then can these people sleep at night.
At the end of the day, everyone of these players just wants all casters to be nerfed utility bots so the melee overlords can go back to being the dominant meta doing pve rotations on their target dummies.
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People complaining about lack of mobility in a thread about shadow priests.
You know, the class with 0 burst mobility. The actual, officially most slow class in the game.
God rly gives his funniest battles to his silliest clowns.
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Its a big burst CD.
Its core part should be to deal high AoE damage and as of right now its usage is limited only to CC immunity since damage is pitiful and its also lackluster mechanically because of being tied to multiple other passives which you need to watch out for if u want it to deal the most Dam which still will be just bad.
I mean yeah ofc you can say more things to watch out for = more skill ceiling but i jsut rememeber the times when u could pop Recklesness (back when it wasnt Fury only) and your Bladestorm would wreck the sh1t out of people around you in BG’s for example. Those were the days.
Now its damage is basically halfed because some Dev thought it’ll be a good idea to add an ability which does essentially the same thing - Thunderour Roar and make both of those pickable at the same time.
Listen all im saying is:
When Bladestorm deals damage, it has more than 1 use.
When it doesnt its limited to only 1 and that is CC immunity. That is a bad design.
Doesn’t matter, because you still don’t have the damage pressure required to make a difference. + Why would any1 play with a warrior whenever their BiS comp is double caster etc?
? if i was incredibly strong people would play warrior, but they don’t. so there u go
That’s because the war dev got taken out the back and [LAID OFF].
So give it a downside?
Why are warrior players such crybabys its the easiest class to attract new players you dont have to be viable anymore at higher tiers even DH is harder to play now.
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you play unholy DK