SPOILER: New Anduin, Thrall, Primus, Sylvanas and Uther Models!

Now I want Anduin to just become Azeroth’s Guile.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ConfusedScaryIberianemeraldlizard-max-1mb.gif

No. Seriously no. He grows his hair back and things get like they used to be. The End.

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But if he does that how will he avenge Charlie, the buckle washing, devil may care hapless hero of Gnomeregan?

He needs to be the hero Azeroth needs, with the hair to match.

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Bolvar will take care of that.

Anduin shall grow his hair back, become a hippie again and grow me a new tree.

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Looks cool :smiley:

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We can fly with aunt Sylvie in 9.1 :heart_eyes:

Genocide = systematic targetting with aims to annhilate individuals on the basis of their belonging to a specific race/cultural group. It does not imply “attempt to wipe out a race” as opposed to “attempt to wipe out members of a race” - subtle, but different.

So any situation where a faction has targetted individuals due to their belonging to a specific race with aims to annihilate them all (within a locale) would be a form of genocide, so long as the key motivator was their belonging to a group.

Teldrassil - Yes and No. Depends how you view it. Sylvanas never claimed she wished to eliminate the nelf specifically due to them being nelf, rather it was a vague “kill hope” statement. It doesbn’t make what she did any less abhorrant but I wouldn’t classify it as genocide. Now if she had then directly embarked on a merry campaign to burn down all the other fairly close nelf territories, i’d humour that argument, but she didn’t, it was teldrassil specifically.

Orcs vs Draenei on Draenor - This WAS a genocide, yes.

Original Orcs vs Humans - Arguably yes, but then again the Orcs were just aggressive to everything that was not them, so it’s not clear whether it was “because they were humans” or whatever else. In the case above, the Orcs were groomed (by KJ) to specifically hate, mistrust and target the draenei in particular.

original Trolls versus humans - Difficult as Trolls interpreted the humans as interlopers (fair argument, the land was theirs and humans were aliens) and indeed the trolls seemed to attack anything that wasn’t a Troll.

Follow up Humans and Elves versus Trolls - Yes and No. Would be a No from alliance perspective “they attacked us first!!!” however the alliance at this point did go beyond their original bounds and pushed the trolls much further back than they originally went and went on to take the lands so it’s very hard to push this narrative in the alliance’s favour as it changes it from a “self-0defence” argument to an expansionist motivation. Not sure whether i’d say it was a form of genocide but possibly.

Dwarves killing frostmane trolls - Dwarves would argue it’s self defence, however KEY in this scenario is the dwarves are specifically sent to kill the young trolls, attack several of their encampments and essentially drive them from Dun Morogh entirely. Whether it’s justified or not based on prior Troll aggression, the Dwarves do appear guilty of genocidal practice here as there is a sustained and systematic approach towards killing the frostmane trolls in particular, including the young.

Taurajo - Not genocide as Taurajo =/= the tauren race, but this is a good example of murky alliance behaviour where civillians attempting to flee were struck down by forces under alliance employ and serves as evidence that something doesn’t have to be a genocide to be considered morally dubious behaviour. In this case i’d argue war crimes were committed in some form.

“Leave no Survivors” - Goblins happening to happen upon the Alliance looking for Thrall overseas (with Goblins being known neutral parties at this point) were designated as kill targets by the Alliance and their boat was scuttled as a result by the alliance opening fire on them when the Goblin ship made no offensive manouveurs. This was morally dubious due to the Goblin’s place as a neutral party at the time. Goblins or not, opening fire (with intent to kill) on a neutral vessel because it may or may not have seen you doing something sensitive is not considered “fair game” under wartime rules in most situations.

Rights for the Dead? - We can argue whether Forsaken have rights or not, being dead and all, but the fact remains that upon “returning” to the living world, the living humans attempted to annihilate them all the same. You could argue this was “reasonable” given the scourge threat, but given Forsaken are not Scourge, i’d argue they were targetted in a genocidal fashion in this manner until they fled to the safety of their now-plagued lands.


Both factions have committed morally dubious acts at one point or another. Genocide is not the only morally dubious thing one can do.

You can even look at the Alliance’s invasion of Dazar’Alor as a morally dubious affair, given the Alliance tricked the Zandalari into believing they were sending troops to one location, so they could sneak them towards the city undetected and them use bombs to cause panic and disruption before infiltrating the city. You could argue this is “fair game” during war, but even so, there’s an argument that it was a dishonourable way to conduct themselves.

Baduin, Primus and Thrall look good… however, I think they have overdone the pink eye, on Sylvanas…other peeps mileage will vary.

you make some fair arguments but I completely disagree on teldrassil, just because sylvanas didnt outright say to the rest of the horde im going to burn down their city doesnt make what she did not genocide, her intention was to kill as many nelves as possible.

The horde’s list of crimes is far longer and worse than anything the alliance has done.

Teldrassil / genocide of the draenei is by far the worst offences.

Ehhh, yes and no. That wasn’t her intention, her intention was to seize Teldrassil and occupy it, leaving it’s civilian population as human/elven shields to prevent Alliance retaliation, essentially gunboat diplomacy on an extreme degree.

Even Tyrande knew that, as she says to the Alliance character to return to Darnassus to ensure the Occupation was as tolerable as possible (Not sure how the player was supposed to do that. Sylvanas herself didn’t even intend to do it, you can see that in the Warbringer’s cinematic, her original orders are to ready the boats to take their troops across. Only after Summermoon triggers her stupid PTSD moment does Sylvanas order it burned. Even her General, even her boyfriend are utterly surprised by her sudden change of intention. Rather than an intention to commit genocide, it was a sudden emotional knee-jerk reaction. I mean the results were the same as if she -had- planned it, but that was never her original intention.

As pointed out Genocide can also mean wiping out that part of a race/people within your capacity to do so, such as the tragic events of the Holocaust. Silly moustache man could only wipe out those Jewish people within lands he had conquered, he could not wipe out all Jewish people, however we still (rightly) regard it as Genocide.

Similarly in Azeroth, the Purge of Dalaran was an act of Genocide. Whilst Jaina was sending a few people to prison, she had set loose Vereesa and the Silver Covenant, who went on to happily torture and murder every Blood elf they could get their hands on, so every one within their reach. They obviously could not carry this on to Silvermoon, but that place where they -could- kill them all, they did so.

Orcs vs Draenei however, that was most definitely an (Unsuccessful) attempt at Genocide, you’re right.

Jailer straight up gave anduin a bowl cut

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Is Anduin bending over and waiting for Thrall to insert his staff?

I think Sylvanas dying to save Andiun would be so antithetical to her character.

The whole reason she has done this is to avoid the cycle of death. Why would she suddenly just accept death to save someone she’s only really known for a few years, and for the most part has been in direct opposition with?

Added the video with Uther’s new model for 9.1 to the OP. :slight_smile:

Teldrassil is a Biggie, but draenei doesn’t apply as the new horde doesn’t inherit the sins of the old horde, in the same way you can’t justify the massacre of draenei on draenor with “well your forebearers did bad crap so this is fine”.

that would be true if it wasnt for the fact that a lot of the same orcs and warlocks who comitted said genocide are still part of the horde lol

But to claim that is a horde genocide is then claim the entirety of the alliance comitted genocide (or attempted to) because Jaine did what she did at Dalaran, which is obvious nonsense.

What some Orcs did as part of the old horde does not make those same orcs somehow morally blemish the entirety of a new order they end up within, particularly if they’re like Saurfang (whom expressed haunting regret over the whole thing).

This isn’t me excusing what the Orcs did, but to lay that at the feet of the the modern horde is ridiculous. If you ran a business and you happened to employ someone who killed someone around 30 years ago, would you say it’s fair to say your business was complicit in murder? I think not.

Ooh… i want 2 colored hair and beard options too!

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