If you are going to just insult me, i’ll pass on attempting to help. Good luck 
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Shame this thread turned into a sh*tshow.
Regardless how Sausageroo performs, fact remains 1. MM was inflated post 10.1 due to the onyx ring and 2. the MM tier set is the worst DPS gain in the game currently.
No one can dispute that and that is what should be focussed upon.
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you know something iv learned in my few years of this is as the game as gone one more and more people want to be good at everything.
you cant balance a game like this classes need Niche areas.
quite often the only barrier to participation is a group percieved one. not meta or fotm dont get invited but the reality is all classes are viable to quite high keys.
thats not to say tweeks cant be had, but often as mentioned above you arent expected to be able to play at top 1% but dont then being buffed to compensate for it is also terrible for the game.
someone at some point has to take a turn being lower on the logs or the game stagnates is just how it is. some classes have been far worse for far longer im sure.
each class forum is full of people whining about how bad their class is compared to another one, it becomes an unhealthy obsession to be fair.
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Sadly it’s the age we live in. People look at MDI and RWF and then make their decisions based on that, selecting only the best-performing classes/specs for whatever content they run. Sites like wowhead and Icy Veins don’t help the situation either by constantly posting articles on the performances of each class and spec for raids and M+, further skewing peoples’ perceptions despite almost every class being viable for the content as @Alasean pointed out. People no longer want to think for themselves.
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I would say the reverse, they simply highlight issues. Now if only the devs would pull the finger out and put everyone on a level playing field.
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No - they highlight poor data with absolute zero nuance added. There are many reasons and factors why statistics are the way they are, and wowhead highlights none of it. This heavily skews things to look worse than they are. Here are some examples of why raid statistics are bad, when you add no context:
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Better specs are played more by better players, so the better specs skew even higher than they should, because the average playerbase is better. Likewise, weaker specs are shown even lower than they should be, because it will be played by a far more casual player on average/people who care less about max performance. This makes the gap between better and weaker specs far bigger than it’s ‘real’ value. If top players suddenly play the weaker specs - those specs would rise. This is why sometimes a mere 3% buff can make a spec seem WAY better - it’s just because it makes better people play it.
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Top performing specs often get PId, which push them even further ahead. This applies right now to things like unholy, demo, destro, etc.
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Some specs are better at certain fight types. Last tier BM was an excellent example of why overall boss statistics are useless. It was a very strong spec, the best ST spec in the game at times, yet was almost last on overall. This was purely because even on AoE fights, BM played pure single target for boss damage. This made it look really bad overall, but it was an extremely powerful spec.
There are a million other factors. As people above have mentioned, unless you are raiding world first or pushing the absolute rank 1 keys, class balance is more an issue of community perception than actually gatekeeping you from content. We have had some of the best class balancing we’ve ever had this expansion - but it’s 2023 meta gaming so people flock to whatever their favourite streamer says is good, when in reality it’s meaningless.
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Jesus Christ this thread was hilarious.
Jerby tries to help a person and gets the most emo self pitying response its possible to get.
It’s not the class sausagearoo, its you. You can work on whats in your control and try to make small incremental improvements or you can rely on external factors like “them changing the class” I’d suggest the former.
Also, statements like “no hunters were used on the world first kills of …”. What the fudge does that have to do with you? Those teams normally have very specific setups designed around the specifics of a fight. Statements like this don’t add credibility to your assertions, they make a joke of you making them.
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You have missed the point.
All they need to do is nerf trick shot damage and make it uncapped. Just like BM is uncapped. Depending on the amount of mobs you can easily do 1mil dps on BM aoe.
Mm is one of my worst performers.
The damage is just not great, especially in aoe. All it’s got is burst.
They need to increase the damage of the kill shot bleed to at least 50% of the damage of kill shot.
And increase the target cap.
Let’s not lie please. The serpent in NL for example is a nightmare as hunter, because the poodle will chunk a lot of ur hp even when you’re prepared for it. MM needs to be reworked urgently. I can do some nice aoe damage yes, but the spec still feels clunky, and weakened. Aimed Shot can’t stay like this. It needs to be reworked to have a shorter cast, and shorter recharge, or it needs to be buffed to compensate the crit nerfs. It’s insane that I have to spend 2.2 sec casting an ability with medium impact. And defensive wise, I never liked how MM has been. Exhilaration heals for too little, for a such a CD. Turtle is about one of the most useless defensives in the game when it sits on a 3 min cd and only delays your inevitable death. At least BM doesn’t need to sacrifice damage to have access to defensives and some self heal
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I don’t even know why this needs to be argued, hunter has some of the worst defensives, and is currently one of the squishiest classes. It’s not super bad though, it’s mostly self heals that are bad.
Only mage is more squishy. Since they have immunites, and a cheat death as fire, but virtually no self heals, and a pretty pathetic shield.
I have to disagree about aoe. Mm hunter aoe is not nice. Only burst aoe. And aimed shot is fine.
As soon as you’re out of trueshot, say goodbye to your aoe. Mm needs some sustained aoe buffs, they need to increase the dot damage of razor fragments, that would be a start.
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Bro it chunks every classes HP, at least hunter has a ton of buttons to be able to negate it a fair bit. You can at least rotate SoTF, exhil/fortitude, turtle. Some classes press astral shift on one, then have nothing for any of the rest.
Aimed shot is completely fine. I have no idea what you mean by crit nerfs because this is not a thing. Also how can you want faster aimed shot recharge time - one of the issues of MM right now is that we literally cannot cast all the aimed shots whilst spending KS procs/rapid fires/keeping up SS etc. With our current 4p + trueshot uptime aimed shot recharge is practically too fast.
Exhil huge CD? It’s cd is sub 60 seconds if you actually spend your focus.
Turtle is situational - you say it’s useless but it can literally completely negate mechanics entirely. Not to mention it’s CD is more like 2.5 mins when you spec properly. Then on top of this you have survival of the fittest, a personal rallying cry, and way higher base HP than most other specs, we are in a decent spot. Then you can also feign a ton of m+ mechanics…
Uh, what? MM literally has it’s defensive by default. You sacrifice no damage.
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Those are actually pretty good points to be honest.
With the difference that other classes have more defensives, or have proper self-heal to aleviate the pressure from healer especially if the whole party is in mid-to-low hp. As MM you have Exhil (only 30% heal, slightly buffed if you invest two points on another talent), fittest and turtle, which doesn’t even remove debuffs from you, a CD sitting on 3min.
In PvP., crit values have been changed. This had a major impact on Aimed Shot, as crit values are lower now and we were very dependant on it. Nothing has been made to compensate it.
4-set should not fix something that it’s broken or clunky baseline. Sets are supposed to compliment. Aimed Shot has too long of a hardcast, ESPECIALLY in PvP. On the other hand, AS recharge with TrueShot also contributes to the clunkyness especially when you have two charges of AS available, RF available, KS proc available, and the two arcane shots available. Sometimes you’ll be flooded with a lot of procs, or cds making it all a mess on what to prioritize
With TS only, and MAYBE it gets better with 4-set, and on fights where you can stand still for long periods of time. Good luck without RNG gods blessing you outside of TS CD, and good luck getting the cd reduction benefit in PVP
As for turtle, again, I don’t like how the defensive works, it ccs us, it doesn’t remove debuffs, and it doesn’t heal us. It’s way too simple for a 3 min cd.
BM can have acess to Roar of Sacrifice. MM needs to sacrifice damage to have access to that. MM needs to sacrifice damage to have access to freedom, ms effect and single target stun as well (mandatory in PvP). MM needs to sacrifice damage to have BL.
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TLDR: I still enjoy playing MM, but that doesn’t make me blind to the fact that MM has a lot of flaws in its design.
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I wish Lone Wolf would completely replace the need for a pet and would give us equal abilities we have with pets, but in Lone Wolf format. If that’s not possible, MM pets need to be buffed damage and defensive wise, considering how feeble they are in pvp especially.
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I wish we were properly compensated for the removal of DT, by either reducing Aimed Shot cast time, or by giving us an option to cast it on the run.
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I was never a fan of Turtle and I think it’s too much of a simple defensive for a 3 min CD so IMO it should be reworked, or as MM specifically it being changed to something better
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Aspect of the Cheetah 3 min cd is also senseless in its current format
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Too many GCDs to set up our burst
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Precise Shots procced Arcane/Multi Shots should not cost focus
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The MM set bonusses surely needs a buff and the AOE from razor fragments should also be buffed quite abit.
Other than that, i would make imp steady shot baseline.
I would also make one of streamline/precise shots/careful a single point talent.
MM need a rework or at least a tuning until the rework, well guess what, neither are coming.
MM is fine to Blizzard, deal with it. Well, I timed every 20 this season, took me at least 1 hours and an half to even find a group, I’m done, I can fork off until next season.
I’m certaintly not playing an alt just to bypass the freaking wait room simulator this game become the minute you don’t play a meta spec or class.
The “meta slave” mentality come from players but mostly Blizzard who has no issue leaving a class or a spec in the dumpster for weeks, months or even full season or expansion.
They want to win back people ? Allow them to be competitive with the class and spec they enjoy, it’s not that hard.
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TBF it’s more the fault of the playerbase. Everybody just wants to breeze through all content the quickest way possible and the best way to do that is by playing the meta. It’s a sad state of affairs that isn’t helped by the fact that wowhead and Icy Veins post weekly articles on the best specs for raids and M+ to further propagate the issue.
Ho sure, people always been toxic as fork, nothing news worthy there and I totally understand the reasoning, I blame Blizzard for not doing anything about it and even leave some spec in the dumpster for complete expansion without caring, that’s not on players.
We’ve got 10.1.5 PTR and no signs of any changes when absolutely the whole community agree on the fact that Hunter suck in Keys.
What more do you need to make a change ? Can’t they be proactive once in their forking life or stealing milk more important ?
Thanks heaven society as a whole doesn’t work that way it would be a constant clown fiesta.
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At last, I am unbanned and able to reply to you at last you snivelling little turd. Probably get banned again.
No, Jerby tried to dismiss my arguments because I wasn’t a 1%er like he was, even though I obviously play the game as a decent level (former mythic raider, might dabble again with how good the expansion is, M+ pusher). Unlike you…looked at you, don’t see any evidence that you do much that would stretch your ability or class/spec. I might not be world first but at a level where I can feel the inadequacies of the spec, its defensives and it’s lack of AoE. See how equipping the 4 set over the previous 2 set + 2 set gave me 36 extra DPS in sims - suspect the increase and then some comes from the item level upgrade.
So, assertions eh? We’re talking assertions? I provided evidence. None of the top guilds played with a hunter, and that is still telling. Did you read the quote of Rogerbrown himself who stepped out because he was, in effect, too much of a liability? Too squishy? No, you just want to continue white-knighting with no particular purpose.
I suppose presenting stats on the performance of each of the stats by the top percentile of parses is wrong? Well, no, because this is starting to eliminate other factors such as player error and also with reasonably good luck and still…it’s what the spec can do in the right hands approaching an asymptotic level of theoretical output. And it falls short. So this information is useful. Plus we have the more anecdotal responses regarding survivability which are well acknowledged - even if hard to quantify.
So we have a problem with Marksmanship. I have laid out a cogent argument to this effect. You have come to be an annoying wasp, flapping around under the coat tails of a high mythic raider. Kindly go back to the general channel where you are notorious for just annoying the crap out of anyone with your attitude.