What are you talking about, you have 4 keys on 25 intime, and 2 easy keys.
And 2 times Atal 25.
We are not talking about Warrior Cant Play 25 Keys.
We Talking About the Que and the Utility from Warrior and also the toolkit.
And i am sure if you wanna que for 25/26 rise with “YOUR” Warrior you stuck also in Que and dont get invitet.
nonsens comment about Warrior Talk if you wanna flex with 25 keys lol
Thx next
I am simply pointing out, for the topic at hand, the dooming is completely pointless and not at all interesting.
KSM is not affected at all by the problems mentioned by the doomers. It, wont matter, at all.
All that will affect the KSM journey is the community perception. A perception reinforced by the dooming echo chambers. The very thing people are doing in this thread. Dooming.
Even then, the community perception, won’t really matter either. As I did point out - even if it is a problem, for the goal - that is KSM, it is easily circumnavigated.
It is just another thread infected by doomerism.
Are this doomers with us in room right now?
Perception of community has nothing to do with warrior dooming on forums and discord, recently also on YouTube comments, Reddit threads etc. dissatisfaction with a class is actually spreading outside “echo chamber” perception has everything to do with experience of people playing with warrior, as well as general usefulness of warriors in keys.
Playing on my alt opened my eye to the fact that so many demon hunters, warlocks, mages, hunters apply for keys, there is no reason to invite warrior because down the line demon hunter will appear in your que.
Main problem with warriors is the fact that everything we should be good at, classes do better, and plus some of top of that.
Warriors are not best damage dealers especially arms, we are not most survivable class especially arms, we are not most mobile class, we do the least amount of damage on bosses on top of non existing utility and you have one path to disaster.
Augmentation changed the game, we outright lost one potential spot in the group, and are competing for 2 remaining spots, with monstrosities like demon hunter, demonology warlock, fire or frost mage, outlaw and assassination rogues, BM hunters.
This is not a issue of warriors perceiving lack of invites wrongly “Dooming” as you say, there is actually lack of invites because we just can’t compete with what is out there and we are competing for one of 2 existing spots.
Why you call us doomers ? We are not even close to what ret paladins and mages pre thier rework.
All i read here is logical reason. People are gathering here to express that we are left behind with no major update to ower talents and we are paying costumers just like other people. it’s very clear that warriors at this point being ignored for whatever reason. For m+ you can count as much warrior utility as you like the thing is other bring that + they deal more damage on top of that better everything so don’t try to say we are doomers for stating the obvious, you finishing 25 or whatever has nothing to do with what are we trying to say here. Good for you but the main point and its facts that other classes do whatever utility warrior have and it have better damage like ret paladin and ret not even close to be super effective like even better classes that do better damage then ret like mage and they even have better utility. So we are even behind behind.
As paying costumer this not acceptable there is clearly something off with warriors in df.
i dont even know why you still continue to debate with funkykittie. the dude is in the warrior forums proclaiming everything is fine with warrior since the start of dragonflight.
nobody says warrior cant time high keys. ofc warrior can. every class and spec can. the problem we are talking about is that the community has no incentive to invite a warrior into a pug, and they are right to think so. we bring nothing to the table that other classes dont. every thing we bring is done better by other classes. and thats the reason warrior dps is most likely not to be invited into a pug.
hell when i am tanking in my DK and running my keys i will never invite a warrior. i can instead get a dh or rogue that deals more dmg and has better group utility.
only thing warrior brings is tankiness and self sustain which is not really a desired trait for m+ cause it does not help other party members
Even that is not that impressive, fire mage can survive more, outlaw rogue can survive more, and augmentation evoker as well as retri paladin can survive more.
If warrior was outright unkillable to the point of being exceptional at that you would see a lot more warriors in higher keys, not 1%.
If you keep saying that warrior is in dire straights, that KSM is beyond your reach because of ‘the meta’, ‘utility’ ‘other classes’, your list goes on…
Yes. You are dooming. Calling on and listing a bunch of irrelevant issues, that is at best indirectly affecting the situation, then blowing it out of proportions - bringing up the problem in the 0.01% meta to hold up your ‘negative loaded attitude’. Yes, that is dooming. You want things to be doom and gloom, when there is no reason to keep yapping about it.
In the overall context, warrior is fine. We have done +30, we are up there. We get the job done.
Now, in the context of this thread and topic, that is KSM. Warrior is more than fine. I would go as far as excellent. We bring the stops you will need for any keystone done on that journey, we bring an overkill amount of DPS and we can easily tank it without breaking a sweat on silly pull sizes.
People who say ‘warrior is in a bad spot’, ‘we are in desperate need of more utillity’, ‘warrior do not get invited’, in this context - you are far off into the fields of silly-roses eating them.
If you are having troubles getting KSM as a warrior, or you believe warrior will have problems getting KSM. You really need help. Your doomer levels are lethal.
If you are trying to convince someone that asked, “can warrior do KSM” that they will face this wall of issues, then you are dillusional.
If you just want to rant about the same doomer points you always do - go to the threads with that topic. I will fight you there as well, on most points. But here, in a KSM thread, I will not even play with the idea of doomers.
Doomers, return to your echochambers from where you came. This is not a post you need to be in!
You are arguing in bad faith. Nobody is saying KSM is unreachable.
The crux of the matter is that warrior brings less than any other class and people would like a change.
If you argue that it is not the case and that warrior brings as much as the next class, you are delusional. If you argue that the discrepancy between warrior and other class is low enough that it doesn’t matter, then it’s debatable.
Though most of us think it’s significant to warrant forum posts/reddit threads/discussions in skyhold discord.
I wrote this, please stop shifting arguments around.
I wrote this, because just like him, I started playing later in season 1, was behind the curve the entire season, somehow managed to do all 20s, and I know first hand how frustrating and unrewarding playing your keys out of necessity tends to be.
You will have this issue on every class joining late, but being warrior is an additional out of dungeon affix that will make your progression that much harder.
This is not dooming, this is a reality, outside exceptional usefulness of Spell Reflect in Throne of Tides, where I would argue warrior is a best class to bring but that often flies under the radar of a lot of META slaves that only play DH,Aug,Mage comps, the presence of a warrior in a group often comes with a price of not having X utility.
If a person who makes group, plays a class that does not have BL or CR, chances of warrior joining that group are almost 0 given that 2 CRs, and BL are a standard nowadays especially in pugs and especially during Tyranical weeks add to that maybe affix or dungeon mechanics that demands dispell and you are now never inviting warriors.
Then you got the indirect complaints, then you got the talk about high keys. That got nothing to do about KSM. Like:
Things that don’t affect the KSM journey at all.
Points can be valid by themselves, but in picture of a KSM discussion. No I don’t feel or believe these belong in this discussion. This belongs in the myriad of already existing posts.
In my eyes, all you guys are trying to do is to paint warrior in a worse light than it actually is. I am not saying you shouldn’t discuss the topic, I am saying it doesn’t belong in the same basket as KSM.
I am confused why you would feel called out. You didn’t seem to be doomin’, you just gave more perspective. If you feel you are dooming and dooming is aimed at you, that is fine. Other than that, we basically brought up the same points, as per usual, we agree. I don’t know what you want, really.
Still, if you argue meta is a factor for KSM. I already discussed in the very top of this thread. I am pretty sure we both agree on the advice given there, so I doubt we actually are disagreeing, as per last time.
Hm no I do not think anybody is dooming on this thread, people just point out their problems and experiences about their general feeling of state of the warrior, especially when it comes to invites.
I do not think “I do not get invited into keys at all does anybody else has this issue” and then people say that they noticed the same, is anything short of valid feedback, I hope that at this point you understand you are in minority if you are getting invited as you say “instantly”
I honestly do not think you should just shrug opinions of other people.
Reason why I think there is more dissatisfaction, and more talk about warriors recently, even in some YouTube videos that are not warrior centric is the fact that obviously Legendary is huge letdown.
I am not saying their points are invalid. Nor, that there isn’t a growing portion of discontent players. Warrior and plate users are having a rough time, legendary was a let down. Those things are not untrue. I don’t disagree.
My point is - those issues are not valid on the topic of: Is warrior viable to do KSM.
I will shrug off others opinions on offtopic matters. I also hope OP will do to. I pray that any new partipants that wonder about the same KSM question - does not get infected by doomerism.
All this offtopic-yapping do, is to try shifting the focus from, “Warrior can do KSM” to another thread of ‘warrior got XYZ problems and cant do keys, QQ’. It is not needed and should be avoided as much as possible.
The legendary is amazing, the reason it’s a let down is because all plate DPS users are further behind on dps than the legendary provides, meaning you need the legendary to come close to breaking even, but then it falls short.
And we’re all talking about this legendary but none of us have it. The Ret I play M+ with does, but I’ve seen very few of them to date. If you want a Legendary to be exciting and then all the specs that can use it are undertuned, it doesn’t look very exciting to be 15% behind on damage while using a Legendary.
What are you gonna do, join LFR and pwn some noobs?
Legendary will not affect KSM luckilly.
I mean KSM is irrelevant in the current version of the game anyway. The mount reward is really forgettable like any generic reskin type rep vendor mount, and at that point you’re still very much considered a noob, so of course it doesn’t affect KSM, it’s a rating achievable at very low ilvl because this season is very easy, even Keystone Hero isn’t considered anything and it’s the highest achievement.
As for the Legendary, it’s really good, it’s not good enough to make plate classes more desirable, Ret is alright because they are the best of a bad bunch and they have amazing survival + utility on top.
You don’t need to time 20 keys to get KSM nor Hero. So indeed the discussion is off-topic but will be a hinder the OP will face as people are people and want the easy comps to grind it (even if not needed).
Some groups finish 20s with 2 fury warrior, but that doesn’t mean it’s the norm 
Also looking at your rating Kitty, I would expect you to have no trouble to get invited in 28+ from Pug groups, is it the case?
I am glad someone else gets that the community perception is not as major as many think it is, but it do exist and will be a minor factor. My major concern is that the offtopic negativity will rub off and smear the impression someone will get to a more downbeat tone.
I doubt I would get into any PuG 28s before I have at least done a 27. Even then, at that point I would have wanted to swap from PuGing to premade.
I was asked if I could PuG up to the 25 level (as that was impossible), when I was doing my 18 ToT weapon farm, so I PuGed my way to 25. It was as easy as I expected. Even though, that is arguably not PuGing as you guys call it. As I by habit asked people after timing a 22++, if they wanted to do one more, and one more. Bringing me to the goal of a 25. I also did a 25 raw PuG, but if I was just lucky getting in within 5 min or if that is a pattern, I can only guess.
Now, 28, is another can of worms. 25-26 area is where I always state you should not focus on PuGing, you should use your road to this point to network and use the connections to climb if that is your goal. As I did not have that goal, I have to do the work to get the groups running for that content first. In all honesty, I am not that hyped pushing score. When I don’t have a goal to climb, I simply do keys for other purposes. That is where I find fun in the content.
So, could I get a ‘raw’ invite to a 28 with my current score? No, I highly doubt it. Could I slowly fill my holes with 25s, then 26s, then 27s, then maybe get into a 28? It is likely, though the time commitment to do that as a pure PuG experience sounds exhausting and close to madness.
So, as is with KSM vs 28s, the goal is approachable and doable, though one requires a lot more prep work than the other. One you can easily PuG and the other you can PuG if you hate yourself and don’t value your time. Both cases, it will be more efficient if you network while doing them, but one requires it a lot more than the other for efficiency factor.
bro nobody is argueing that fury is not able to time 28s or whatever.
the problem that people are having is, that warrior brings nothing to the table another class doesnt already bring and they do it better.
ofc you can pug yourself into mid 20 keys. nobody argues that, the problem is that the grp needs to be specifically build around the warrior.
we dont bring any of the following
what do we bring
why would i ever invite a fury or arms when i also can get a bm hunter, or a DH or a rogue? they all bring way more utility than warrior and have a better dmg profile.
stop dismissing the experince other players have when queueing with their dps warriors.
hell even i dont take warrios into my grp as blood dk. why would i? they bring nothing another class doesnt bring in a better way.
stop argueing against warrios all day. i am happy for you that you get instantly invited into every pug, but most warriors dont experiece this.
Hi, Disco, my point remains, you can feel free to talk about the need of utility and and changes you want to see.
Just don’t bring them into a post about KSM, where it doesn’t matter at all for the topic.
There are already threads and posts up about the topic you want to discuss. But doing so in this KSM one, just undermines the confidence new players and OP will have in warrior being able to get to that goal.
That is my point. Not that warrior can in theory do a +30. My point is in context of this thread, that negativity is hurting the perception of warrior in connection to KSM. Doomerinm and gloomism is not needed here.
i bring my points about utility and what not into every thread i see fit. you are not in the position to silence. i am not going to ask you where i can voice my opinion. i do it wherever i see fit.