Stealth, Dampening and A total redesign

PVP Arenas
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Rogue and Druid Stealth should have a 30 seconds duration on a 15 second cool-down.

Stealth should decrease the movement speed of players in PVP by 50%

For every 1% dampening, the cool-down of Stealth should increase by 1 second.

This means by 30% dampening, Stealth would last 30 seconds but have a 45 second cool-down.

There is nothing more toxic in arena then coming against a Sub Rogue who can 1 shot your healer during Shadowy Duel. then sits in Stealth and repeatedly lien of sights to stealth and your unable to do anything about it because the class is POORLY designed.

Stealth right now have ZERO down side. Casters have to cast and can be interrupted and line of sighted. Melee classes can be disarmed, Line of Sighted and kited.

Stealth classes. they get line of site of a caster, easy restealth. You attempt to kite them due to insane damage. they get restealth.

Even if you dot them. they can resealth. i know the stealth conduit is being nerfed but it should outright just be pruned and replace with a conduit that reduces the cool-down of stealth by 5 seconds.

anybody that disagrees with this are biased and either play a rogue/druid or play with one.

4 Likes
2

I dont like giving it a duration and a longer cooldown but I agree with reducing movement speed in stealth and making it so if you get a rogue out of stealth he gets punished, not like it is now. If you get a rogue out of stealth he can still do his opener and it sucks.

4 Likes
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I feel like in Stealth nowadays you run faster than outside of stealth.

They should look how stealth used to work like in TBC for Rogues. The problem lies behind that the current Arena format is not designed in mind with rogues having 0 stealth cooldown and then running at nitro speed while stealthed, the arena eyes are still designed with 2007 rogues in mind.

They could rework stealth to how it was, but another more fitting and easier solution would be to increase the eye duration to like 30? sec and then make them spawn more often than every once in 90 seconds.

Current 15sec are way too short to actually recognize where the rogue is, and if you do what most likely will happen is that you get sapped for the duration of the eye. You have to be on sap dr to catch a rogue and 30s is long enough for that.

4 Likes
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They also need to enable nameplates on stealthed targets to prevent the BS of dodging camera angles.

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Subtelty Rogues running with Mages in 2s often play with Nightstalker for a 20% speed bonus in stealth.

Aside from that one scenario Night Elf Rogues and Druids have a 5% speed bonus in stealth. The racial passive Elusiveness makes it so people are less likely to spot you in Shadowmeld, but as Druid or Rogue since you have enhanced stealth anyway it gives you a speed bonus instead. And because half the Rogues are Night Elves, well, they do move faster in stealth.

Ah yes, the Internet way to argue.

“So basically I express my salty feelings and since I am supreme everything I say is right and the others are wrong by default”

If you really think that way, well first you are a top class imbecile, and second why do you even make a post if no one can discuss it in your eyes ? Might as well shut up, and no one will contradict you then.

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Pretty sure he was referring to how stealth used to slow down your run speed, when now there’s no penalty. Especially since he mentioned TBC rogues.

1 Like
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I also agree that rogues should have a movement penalty when in stealth, how much would be depending on spec, like how it used to be, with subtlety having the least movement penalty (15% or something like that), with outlaw and sin having a bigger penalty. This to stay in line with spec and class fantasy.

Then again I’m also one of those that if they designed classes like they were in wotlk with the quality of life stuff of retail I’d play the game a lot more.

1 Like
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i mean its objectively true that stealth is misdesigned the game at hand and has zero down side. so you cannot disagree with me without being objectively wrong because its factual. not an opinion.

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Imo the only problem with Rogue now is cloaked in shadow, remove it and then you can counter them like before with dot/bleed/pet.

They die easily these days.

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If you’re “pretty sure” then you need to read his first sentence again. Here it is :

And, guess what, that is exactly the point I provided information about ! Since he talked about a feeling, I decided to give the actual information that explains why, indeed, we do run faster in stealth than out of stealth. You know, the use of “nowadays” and also “faster in stealth than out of stealth”, direct comparison between stealth movement speed and normal movement speed
 there was no “oh, we now move faster in stealth than we used to move in stealth in the past”.

All of that to say that, thanks for your input but you missed the point.

No, it is not “objectively true”, it is solely your opinion, nothing special to it. There is no greater power or credible authority that states that what you said is factual. In fact you just invented that because you want to be true, but I’ll repeat myself, there is no source whatsoever that deems your statement as factual.

In fact, if you believe stealth is the issue you’re misunderstanding the game. Some specs are designed around stealth being how it is. The issues around stealth are, for Rogues, the conduit that allows you to restealth with DoTs without it ever breaking, the numerous bugs allowing you to drop combat for no reason (like at the end of Shadowy Duel) so you can reatealth and gain its benefits when you should not have had the possibility to, and for both Rogues and Druids the outdated eye that isn’t enough to get them out because Rogues can sap, and Druids, especially Ferals, can outrun you while you’re mounted for the duration of the eye, every eye.

Stealth by itself, without conduit, without 160% base movement speed in cat when people try to get you out, without combat dropping bugs, and with a way to actually fight back when someone is sitting afk waiting for dampening, is quite fine.

It isn’t a coincidence that a mediocre player, very focused on his crying and thinking whatever he says rules, isn’t able to spot the obvious issues that people with a tad more understanding have already pointed out in this very thread.

3 Likes
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The context of what he was talking about, is how they’re now so fast in stealth that they’re running faster than unstealthed, when in the past they didn’t. Despite those modifiers which you kinda needlessly went out of your way to explain.

Can’t see the forest because of all the trees, eh?

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You’ll be so kind as to notice that his initial post is made of distinct paragraphs. One stating, again :

Which is the one I answered to. If you know proper English it is easy to understand the straightforward meaning of this very sentence, and so whatever you commented about my answer doesn’t hold.

The second part about how Rogues used to be slower in the past etc etc I didn’t talk about, nor do I intend to, so if you’d be so kind as not to put words in other’s mouths (his and mine alike) and twist the meaning of their sentences so that it reflects what you thought it meant instead of what’s actually written, it would be very sweet.

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Oh, you wanna talk about English, do you? When you can’t even understand subtext? Alrighty then, let’s get into it:

nowadays is a comparative term, meaning it’s being compared to something before it. Which he immediately followed up with:

with its focal point being about the run speed penalty (or lack thereof) and the eyes.

And then followed by that. Which yet again refers to the run speed penalty of the past.

There you go, I did you a solid and broke it down for you. Hope that lets you see the context now.

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Solid breakdown stating that sort of stupidity :

When in fact it’s not the same sentence and not the same paragraph. And then you try to lecture about English and post structure. Such a shame
 but it is cute, though !

In any case. I don’t care, nor did I answer the part, about TBC. Someone said he felt like Rogues moved faster in stealth than out of it currently, and I explained why it is the case. There is nothing more to it. Behave now, please.

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Which he never asked about. He brought it up to illustrate the ridiculousness of it now, to strengthen his point that it’d be better if they used TBC as a reference for how to design it, which the underlying point was the run speed penalty of back then.

Context. Subtext. You suck at both.

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Then maybe you need to educate yourself on the meaning of the wording “I feel like”.

If the person I answered to indeed meant something else than what was written, then that person will let me know as an answer to my answer if that is important and/or relevant to the conversation that follows. But you 
 you don’t know. You aren’t that person. So try not to assume what someone else means before they state it. It is very rude, and very foolish.

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Typical concrete thinker.

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I think stealth should be like in TBC. It should
-Make you slower (maybe not 50% but at least some amount, like 30% baseline)
-Be revealable, not just hitting random aoe or being a demon hunter. If you walk in front of your enemy he should be able to see you at some distance so there is some counterplay.
-Not a free reset. If you get hit while in steath, take damage, or get howled you should get revealed. Vanishing should be more like either a way to get insant opener (vanish+cheapshot macro) or a way to run away with some skill like vanish->shadowstep healer and run behind pillar before they react)

Right now you press vanish, you cannot be revelead and you can just reset with no downsides at all.

1 Like
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Why do these peple think stealth should have some serious disadvantage? Ok, let’s put a disadvantage on totems, when you have a totem active you move slower. Let’s put a disadvantage on die by the sword; when you press die by the sword you disconnect or maybe metamorphosis should invert your camera?

Stealth is a perk for the classes that have it.

This is the weirdest one. So you want Vanish, a cooldown, to be almost useless?

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Quite Ironic coming from you. Being wrong is one thing, but being wrong, rude, and assuming what other’s meant without their approval while acting like the victim of the evil and stubborn is something impressive in itself.

That is true, but before Vanish also came with an immunity frame (kind of like BfA DH Blade Dance, in a way) during which you’d immune everything, CC and damage alike. This was removed when the 3s improved stealth window was given. I’m not too sure what people would prefer, in the end. Now, sure, people claim they’d rather not have the Rogue unrevealable for 3s but good players now are way better than in TBC, and addons provide you with more information as well, so a Vanish allowing you to immune anything at the cost of being revealable would make a lot of people unhappy as well, I believe, even if it would require anticipation and skill to immune the right thing.

Also the design of specs, for Rogue at least, is very different from the past. Stealth, and access to its abilities, is much more important now than it used to be (Sub is a good example). Rogues were more powerful out of stealth than they are now, except for Outlaw/Combat. Is that to come back as well with Vanish not being a tool to actually go back to stealth ? Or are you asking for a flat nerf to Vanish but the rest should remain as is ?

Why even use Vanish then? A DoT would instantly take you out anyway with your suggestion and every single spec has DoTs now (ok not Frost Mage), so might as well just step without wasting Vanish ? It would be the same result, you reach your healer without being stealthed.

Your suggestion seems really incomplete, it doesn’t fit what the game has become imo.