[Suggestion/Feedback] Bonus System must change!

PVP War Mode and World PvP
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Disclaimer: This thread is for analysis and constructive discussion of War Mode bonus system, to make a better system for all players of both factions. If you are interested in crying and talking smack - there are a lot of threads for that, this is not one of them. If you want War Mode to be a better experience for yourself and everybody else - you’re very welcome to join. If this thread is constructive and without all that crying bs - we’ll get a much bigger chance of Developers to read it and make something about it. Preferably improvements!

Out of the way information.

What War Mode changed. > click to see <

Previously, when we had PvP servers, players made their choice to be in WPvP environment only once - when they selected a server. Reasons to select one were - friends, guilds, recruitment, faction balance, etc, even a server name. All that were rewards in a sense, for the player to select this exact server that interested them. And there were no choice after that.

Because of that - both PvE and PvP players were in the same WPvP environment, there were no escape except paying for transfer, potentially loosing other things that player was interested in to be on that server. With as addition of not good faction balance on most realms - WPvP was not an active scene.

With introduction of War Mode - any player can be on any server they like and get all things they are interested in, without considering WPvP much. WPvP made optional. Sharding + LFG made server faction balance don’t matter at all, only regional number of players with War Mode ON matter for WPvP population.

That changed one HUGE thing - Why would a player turn ON War Mode (WPvP) if they already have most of interests them - reasons they are on a server, and scripted/regulated/fair BGs and Arenas are there all the time if they want PvP?

  • For fun of WPvP. That is a great reason, but it only really works for players who don’t really interested in anything else in the game and don’t care about character/gear progression much. Because if they are - WPvP feels to them like a waste of time to play even for any length of time that could be considered as long.

  • For progression. No. It’s almost non existent in War Mode itself, and majority of players can’t have anything meaningful out of it.

So, WPvP now has no influence on what was important in old servers system, and can be easily turned ON/OFF. Player choice is changed, and now every player asks only one question - “What will I get if I turn it ON?”.

And that is the biggest change War Mode brought, and this is what made bonus/reward system important.

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Why does War Mode need any kind of reward system? > click to see <

Different players have different motivations to play in any game mode. Some players value fun above anything else, while majority of players need rewards to enhance any fun they might get from playing; for some rewards are the only reason to play. But none of that means that player will or won’t enjoy PvP in all it’s forms.

Any (well, ok, most) activity in a MMO is not fun without other players, and WPvP obviously is not an exception. To have healthy population in WPvP War Mode needs to have system that gives that incentive to turn War Mode ON, and War Mode is not suppose to feel like a waste of time to majority of players.

Rewards system is the most effective way to bring players in and make them stay.
Only FUN is not goint to cut it.

WoW is a mmoRPG - character / gear progression is VERY important, it’s a great motivation in all other parts of the game - M+, Raids, BGs, Arenas. WPvP is not an exception, and it’s not suppose to be.

Because of that - War Mode needs a good reward system to have healthy population and faction balance.

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Faction balance. > click to see <

Over the last few years, a LOT of players with competitive mindset (both PvE and PvP) switched to Horde for various well known reasons. Just look at Horde BG queue times and permanent Enlisted bonus for Alliance - this is a very good indicator of actual faction balance of players who might be interested in playing in War Mode.

Just like with players (on both sides) having a different motivations to play in WPvP, Faction balance is also a problem, and it needs to be addressed, like we all saw in 8.0.

Giving free high ilvl items is not a good way to do it. Yes, it worked, but it created more problems.
Much better solution would be to make a system that gives player rewards, but it actually takes time and effort to get those rewards, while playing in WPvP. This would motivate majority of players on both sides, as much as possible with different motivations of everyone.
More on that later.

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Where current bonus system fails.

Rewards are not based on time and effort.

Imagine if all players who don’t do M+ could still open their chest on a reset day, and have a piece of shiny loot - with a reason for it “not many players are doing M+”. It would be very wrong and broken.

Right now, with weekly quest:

  • Alliance players turn War Mode ON, join gank group, get 25 kills, most of the time with just hitting once and no effort, get their item, turn War Mode OFF and never think about it again till the next week.
  • There is no motivation to stay in War Mode after the quest is done for majority of players.
  • Players get more by switching War Mode for a short time, and not for putting time and effort in playing in that mode.

It works, there is no denying that. But it also creates disdain, disappointment and apathy where suppose to be none of that. It creates more problems than it solves. And none of these problems enrich WPvP experience or give even a possibility for more faction conflict IN-GAME.

It creates the sense on “unfair”, that is actually reasonable, because it is about rewards and not WPvP game-play.

Players who are not interested in WPvP and won’t play it for longer than a quest - get the same rewards as players who actually don’t mind WPvP or want to play in WPvP.

So, with all that, you can clearly see, that - it is wrong and broken.

Why current system worked in 8.1 and fails in Season 2. > click to see <

Before Season 2 started, both weekly quest and Assaults rewarded 370 Heroic ilvl gear. It was appealing enough for majority of players, and that difference of potentially getting 1 more 370 item per week was not a big deal.

With the start of Season 2, Assaults still reward 370, and it’s meaningless now, while weekly quest rewards items with relevant to majority of players item level.

Lowering reward to 385 is better, but problem is still there.

Quest being not permanent and not available for both factions - still has problems because of that, despite the need of this quest to be like that by current system.

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What a better system needs to have:

  • Reward players for playing in War Mode, and not for enabling it.
  • Better rewards for time and effort, just like any other part of the game.
  • Meaningful rewards.

All that will not only lead more players in War Mode, but also make them stay, by motivating with what is important to them.

Additional percents bonus in current form can stay without changes, and going 10-30% can be that additional faction balancing incentive. But nothing else, only these additional percents. It’ll be less of a problem, because more important and actual real rewards will be in a same fair state for both factions - put time an effort = get meaningful reward no matter on what side you are on.

SOLUTION 1. Change current system into:

This idea started from a discussion in this thread, ty Scotchka - Against Overwhelming odds will be nerfed next week - #24 by Coolgroove-defias-brotherhood

Make gear item level of all rewards in War Mode to depend on how much player plays in War Mode.

  • Add a bar around War Mode button, that has for example 20 hours = 100% max on it.
  • All the time that player spends in WM in open world locations (of current content and relevant/revamped old zones) that are not an PvE/PvP instance or sanctuary or a rest zone, is counted towards this bar.
  • On reset day progress on this bar is counted towards this week’s rewards Item Level, and bar gets reset. This part of the idea is something similar to M+ chest - more effort = better reward you can get.

For gear from Assaults and other future WPvP content:

  • If bar is filled for less than 50% - all rewards are with LFR item level
  • If more than 50% - all rewards are with Normal item level

Gear reward from a weekly 25-50 kill quest (not Call to Arms):

  • bellow 50% = no quest
  • 50% - 70% quest for LFR item level
  • 70% - 90% quest for Normal item level
  • 90% - 100% quest for Heroic item level
  • Players of both factions can get this quest. It has nothing to do with faction balance.
  • Quest rewards one of two caches of gear that player is able to chose from - Chest with pool of all current War Front gear, and chest with pool of all current PvP gear.

If player fills this War Mode bar too a 100% - they get additional Quartermaster’s Coin. Could be as a quest on a reset day.

Add scaling with PvP rating.

  • If player’s PvP rating is high enough to get Heroic ilvl gear from PvP chest, then all LFR ilvl rewards for this player are upgraded to a Normal ilvl rewards. And Heroic ilvl reward from weekly quest is rewarded instead of Normal.
  • If player’s PvP rating is high enough to get Mythic ilvl gear, then in addition to previous, they also get Mythic ilvl piece instead of Heroic from a quest, if they filled time-bar for 90%+.

This is the easy way to improve current system, based on what worked in 8.1 and in what direction it can be improved from there. Plus all needed sub-systems for this are already in game.

This kind of approach will make WPvP and War Mode reasonably appealing for majority of players who are interested in PvP or don’t mind it to get something meaningful. Without switching system into something completely different.

SOLUTION 2. Remove current system and add PvP vendors:

  • Make Conquest into a currency.
  • Add PvP vendors, that sell all items and upgrade tokens, not just Azerite, and NO rng-boxes.
  • Add more Conquest rewards for WPvP activities.
  • Make prices depend on players highest rating, so for example 415 item for Glad will cost the same as 385 item for unrated - higher your rating = higher ilvl gear you can buy for the same amount of Conquest currency.

This is a pure PvP system, it will work for every player who is interested in PvP or don’t mind it to get something meaningful.

Players are not dumb, they can find PvP vendors. It’s already accepted by players and Blizzard that looking for Wowhead and other third-party guides is OK. So system will be a lot less complicated as a result, even compared to current PvP rewards system.

Current PvP rewards system is a lot more complicated, and limiting - that in return makes it even more complicated.

By implementing PvP vendors and conquest as a currency, all PvP modes and gearing experience in PvP parts of WoW will be better and more enjoyable.

With this:

I’m going to send this feedback and suggestions to Blizzard via in-game feedback and other channels. If you like it or think current system has to change, have ideas how and why - join this discussion.

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I like the suggestions, but I still wonder if these suggestions will solve it completely :thinking:

((I stopped reading all of your replies to each other in that thread, you two write too much for my tired brain to accept :expressionless:))

As much as I like WM, I sometimes feel like something is missing from it.

Since I have no care for gear (I often play naked/ half-naked), it isn’t gear that brings me in WM.
So the reward system wouldn’t bring me in. I don’t know if I’m the only player who have no care for gear/rewards, but if there is more players like me, then something else has to make us go for that game option.

I don’t lvl my chars in WM when they are between lvl 50-90 (I have a lot of alts)… Because I see absolutely no players when they are in that lvl, not on the faction I play or the other - very boring. Not even the 10-30% buff can get me to turn WM on in those lvl.

And I have been thinking like many have thought: Squish some realms, make the gap between players smaller - make the levelling zones lively again.
Outland, Norhrend, Vashir and Cata zones are great areas to pvp in.

Would it be to complicated if there was a counter for different zones to pvp in? :no_mouth:

Communities are the greatest new feature in WoW in my opinion, and I believe they could be one of the tools to make the pvp awesome - sadly, I have no real idea to how to implement them :confused:
They are guild-like, but shouldn’t take over guilds… But have some guild structure to it?? :man_shrugging: Help me here :sweat_smile:

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hm you guys arent really bright. The point of the quest was to make horde pve players leave WM and alliance pve players join it. the difference between alliance and horde is so large that this is needed. the problem is that there is a imbalance in players who enjoy warmode just for the mode itself and not for the benefits which in turns makes warmode undesirable for all of the alliance. all your reward ideas dont change that. It will just end up being more rewards for the only faction in the warmode (called horde). I am happy none of you is a wow developer

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Nothing is perfect, you can only keep improving. Haha, but without some wise-like bs - way too many players with different tastes, so perfect is out of the window.

Well, if gear is of no importance for you, and it’s a game we are talking about - then it’s safe to assume that Fun and something interesting to do are those more important missing parts.

If so - then more interesting features for WPvP, like towers, sieges, vehicles, etc - could fill that gap for you. But those are game-play systems and content. And to enjoy them fully - you’ll still need other players to play with. For majority - rewards like gear and cosmetics are very important.

We’ll get some more additions for WPvP in 8.2, we’ll see how it goes. Anyway, it’s a different topic. And there is no “one thing to fix it all” for everybody.

Rewards/Bonus system tho - that is something that involved in all parts of WPvP for majority of players. And we all need “majority of players” to play with in MMO. That why I think changing/improving reward system is important, not for gains of a single player, but to get more players to play together and against each other.

All those would be great. But I see only two potential problems with this:

  • Not enough players in WoW to fill all that landmass
  • Not many players still leveling anything. That could change, even if temporary, with new Allied races.

And I think both can change if levels were also squished and more work was done to improve new player experience as well as making leveling into fun and exciting adventure experience again. But all of the way way way … way beyond the scope of this thread.

Tbh, I think communities can’t really make PvP awesome - because they are very close to guilds, and that blurs any ability for structure more than it helps with focusing on it. They are great feature to help with organizing PvP/PvE, but that is the extend of it, imo.

Edit:

Thank you! That was great!
I’m glad that you’re so bring that you don’t even need to read or think - just repeat something obvious. That was discussed with a lot more details, but who cares, right… just repeat like it means something and throw some smack on top of it. How very bright of you. I’m almost impressed.

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You shouldn’t be able to turn WM off straight after doing the Against Overwhelming Odds quest in my opinion. If you put it on it should stay on for the week

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Yeah, I also like that idea in other thread. But no matter how to spin it - it could be a harsh and forced way for many players. An we all know how much WoW players like harsh and forced stuff.

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Every suggestion can have pros and cons. I guess blizz have to be careful and not help one section of players and annoy others.

The current extra bonus system is upsetting some for now, but hopefully will even out. It’s at least having a short term effect that could result in more even numbers of actual wpvpers on shards.

Longer term, too keep us engaged with wm, I like what’s coming and look forward to it. I’m happy with wm, but will take improvements!

  1. I like the idea of progression. Allow casual wm’ers to just jump in and play, but add depth for players that spend more time on wm. Ye something more than just killing. Which is fun, but having something to aim for is also fun.

  2. I like the idea of vendors, because fun. Blizz don’t like vendors, because they want more casuals. But, I’m getting used to blizz’s solution I suppose. And they are at least introducing some choice in gear slot.

Blizz won’t force wm on. Affected players would not see non-wm players in the world for normal gameplay. Not gonna happen I suspect.

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