It is well known for the people who have been playing M+ dungeons for a while that some specs have very high burst and some tanks have very low initial aggro.
A clear example of this is Guardian Druid (low aggro) and Ret Paladin (high burst) and as of right now the 350% increased aggro modifier on tanks is clearly not enough to assure a DPS doesn’t die from initial aggro, and while I agree that this is a skill issue and DPS should adjust and wait a few globals, being realistic, that’s not gonna happen.
With that in mind, I have a suggestion which I will send to Blizzard (and hopefully the community supports this idea by doing the same) depending on how this post turns out.
The suggestion is the following: Give tanks double increased aggro (so from 350% to 700%) on the first 3-5 seconds after engaging on enemies.
I think that would solve the issue without causing any harm, do you agree?
I think if that ret keeps dying and don’t learn a lesson they can keep dying, I’m not sure why the game needs to change because they think the perfect opener is wake of ashes and divine toll just as a bear gets in range of the mobs.
I already adressed this issue on this part of my post:
So instead of expecting people to change which is very unlikely, Blizzard should actively make something about it.
The issue is not only that the DPS is going to die, but it also makes it unnecessarily more stressful for the tank, which as we all know is an underplayed role and the direction should be towards making it more agreeable.
I don’t believe giving 4 seconds of extra aggro makes or breaks the game, but it helps tremendously on those situations. If you believe otherwise please elaborate on why.
They learn or they keep dying, it’s pretty simple. Threat management has always been in the game but, at least during DF everyone had it too easy.
I recall playing years ago and you had to give the tank a couple of seconds at the start of a raid boss fight to generate aggro until you went ham or you would die. More of this needs to come back to the game.
U probably dont remember it, but i do , there were times where tanks had absurd agro, and could never lose it .
U know what it caused ? Super degenerated gameplays where tanks pulled as much as they possibly could, do few globals, and kite into eternity … not realy fun gameplay .
So yea, we dont need to fix anything there, if dps cant wait 2sec they deserve to die .
If the tank losses agro after 5+ globals he is i blame, no matter the class
I assume you’re talking about Shadowlands kiting meta, if that’s the case then yes, I remember those times and I hated it, but this has nothing to do with the problem I’m exposing here.
My concern is about initial threat, having 3-5 seconds of increased aggro on pull will not make tanks have perma aggro for 40 seconds.
The problem you’re referring to was when tanks had like 750% permanent threat increase which is not the case anymore.
I remember a time where everyone had to have a Threat meter, just to make sure that you don’t overaggro the tank. Aggro management is actually not only a tank mechanic, it’s a group mechanic. And whoever doesn’t understand this, will honestly just be a horrible player.
Now, there are some exceptions here where aggro tends to be bugged (high) or weirdly tuned (low). But the times where it’s a problem I see a dps (usually paladin or warrior) pop everything while I’m still collecting the packs. Yeah, that’s just putting a death sentence on yourself. I don’t see a reason why we should change the threat profile of tanks to cover for these headless people.
I can’t even play DotC in PuGs because of the horrid initial aggro managment Trash, Swipe and Mangle has. ESPECIALLY Swipe. Ugh, there’s (almost) always a dead DPS two seconds into the pull…
However, as EC I’ve no issues getting it back with a Moonfire, or two.
I absolutely hate the spec and fantasy of Elune’s Chosen but I can’t deny the ease of it.
Yeah well… that was in classic, if you enjoy that gameplay it’s fine, but 20 years have passed, we are not in 2004 anymore. So no, that doesn’t need to come back.
In 2004 it was (due to bad design), luckily it’s not anymore.
I can tell you a couple reasons if you want, for example making it less stressful for tanks, it is very annoying when you’re trying to pull 2-3 packs in a PUG and the smartest of the Warriors decides to Charge+Avatar+Thunderous Roar on pull as you’re moving to the next pack.
Another reason is making it easier for newer tanks to start learning. I’ve seen new tanks trying to learn the role get demoralized and literally leave the party because an idiot DPS blows cooldowns on pull and mobs start running around, and it’s difficult for new players to regroup all the enemies again.
Yes, I am sure. This changes were made back in Shadowlands so the numbers might be a bit off, but you can check on the DPS metters anyways.
If you as tank do 100k DPS and a DPS does 400k, he’ll get aggro, if he does 300k he won’t so I think the numbers are pretty accurate.
Then the issue isn’t the tank’s aggro/threat. So tweaking that will not solve the problem, only at best hide it temporarily; those kind of DPSes still brick keys later on, still demoralising doing dungeons as PUG.
We are tired of these lessons everyone needs to learn.
In 20ys of wow… DPS only wanna do DPS. So let them do it. We know it will be the same, after after more 10ys
