my suggestion is not to carry this system over in to Shadowlands unless you’d like BFA all over again
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Doubt tgat. It’s for specially interested people, like PvP, raids, RP etc. It would just be another feature added for variety.
I was some “menthos” (as my guild calls them) short of elite kill one. Should get them from raid today. And since I live in some 3rd rate town I have had powercuts today, so not done visions at all since I read the news.
I will update my cloak 1st, then go experiment as tank later.
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YOOOOOOOOOOOU
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARE
NOOOOOOOOOOOT
FOOOOOOOOORCED
TOOOOOOOOOOOO
AGREEEEEEEEEEE
meh that was tedious, you are not forced to agree with anything others post, but maybe, just maybe you can post a reply where it is not flaming players for what they would like/want.
The point is some people like to try things solo and this is a good opportunity for them to do that and there are others who don’t want to change specs to do it. Again you don’t have to agree, your opinion is as valid as others, but you can express that opinion without resorting to childish name calling like telling people to ‘stop crying’, or saying they are bad players.
Seriously, what is wrong with the forums recently, if somebody disagrees with you it’s not the end of the world, debates and exchanging ideas is fun, but that should not mean that everybody turns to insulting each other.
is yours.
WoW. Is. A. Game.
For fun.
End of discussion.
As for increased mob-health and time…i am sure somebody else has brought this up before, but increasing mob-health also multiplies the differences in damage potential of specs.
Right now, mob-health is miniscule, which opens the possibility to burst them down. The sustained damage of specs is almost irrelevant, burst CDs are far more important. If they changed this philosophy a spec that does 10% more DPS at the same ilvl simply has a much easier time. No ifs, no buts.
Since currently some of the most potent dps cooldowns come from gear and not from specs, you could argue the current situation is “more fair”.
It is completely impossible to tune every sepc to have the same DPS, mobility, burst and sustain…the only way to make this happen is to have just one single spec that everybody has to play. I doubt a majority of players want this.
That’s why timed solo-content that has some of the best rewards in the game is a really, really bad idea. Blizzard can either tune it to be possible for a soloing Holy-Priest…which means it will be faceroll for Havoc & Co and they get their rewards for free…or they can tune it to be challenging for Havoc and Holy-Priests can just go home.
Of course, Blizzard COULD theoretically give them a tuning-modifier for each and every spec…but that would betray the intention of them saving dev-time.
In the end, the only conclusion i can get to is that having the exact same content for every spec handing out some of the best rewards in the game is just a horrible design. Mage tower was “better” (still not “good”, in that some of the towers were just way harder than others).
This is why I suggested multiple things to deal with that situation.
Also, on such a very small health pools, burst classes tend to thrive while ramp up ones tend to get a huge disadvantage, the mobs have 300k, my warbreaker does 100-200k, bladestorm basically finishes off all the mobs.
However my dps as an arms warrior is not that high, I do have these cooldowns every 20-30 sec / 50-60 sec, so it’s really not unfair for example to a dot class with no burst, you’re even creating more of a rift there between players, since the difficulty comes from how hard can you burst.
Now switch that to mobs having way larger health pool and damage and more interesting and complex abilities, now the difficulty comes in handling those complex abilities.
Blizzard already implemented a spec modifier, which is a solution out of many.
Another could be implementation of companions, another is like you suggested is tuning for every spec.
But the way the visions atm are made, they’re tailored to benefit the burstiest of classes, my fury warrior kills objective bosses before they can finish some of their casts!
With the difficulty coming from, can you survive for 5-6 seconds before the many abilities of everybody overwhelm you, or can you burst things down fast enough?
I’d like to see visions be something more than that linear mindset, look for buffs, do hidden objectives, take real risk-rewards, think of ways to make use of your class.
Now the issue is like you said is, a class that does 10% more dps on average, will benefit the most, but fact is most of the classes that dominate the Horrific visions aren’t classes with more dps, they’re classes with burst dps at their convenience.
On my outlaw rogue It’s basically blood of the enemy for 80k, between the eye for 180k, bam that’s 260k out of 700k, now factor in the auto attacks, sinisters, main gauche, corruptions, azerite procs, and finishers I can sneak in that 5 seconds gap and you’ll notice, the boss doesn’t make it past the first 10 seconds, even faster!
It’s even more ridiculous on my fury warrior, which basically charge > rampage > rek > BTE > rampage > dragon roar > rampage, this always puts me at 100k dps… at ~1 sec gcd, this sequence means I’ve done 600k damage, in 6 seconds… I don’t get to see the bosses abilities most of the time.
Now with masks on this alleviates the problem abit, but it’s still a problem! because even if mob health is doubled, my burst still gets them! only the bosses will be problematic buuuuuut they’re not… because they’ve been made too simple for the sake of time, so you’re essentially hitting a large target dummy.
Really good thread Hinata, well thought-out and constructive.
I agree that Visions have shone a light on a really cool new direction for a type of progression in wow (the solo dungeon crawler type challenge) so long as it is performed properly. It is very fun to play your HV for the week, prepare for them, strategise, take stock of your research upgrades and plan a new route etc. I really like this and certainly in the first few weeks I could really register improvements in my play and progress as I changed what I did, what talents I ran etc. Less so now I can pubstomp things, but I guess masks is what is left.
I agree with the issue of burst. I see some ppl here have had success with their SPriest. I have very much struggled with mine compared to say my unholy DK and arms warrior. SP lacks a lot of on demand burst (or to get burst they have to sacrifice some other goodies like Legacy at 110) whch can be problematic, particularly with huge packs where mobs can CC chain you. Without burst to knock down the numbers some classes can very much struggle to make big pulls others can else they can’t avoid being chain stunned for example. Adding more mobs into the mix with big hp rather than many weak enemies would be good.
I think the balance of the encounters needs to swap. At current it is largely not how you handle the bosses which determines your success, but how you handle the trash (see: how much you pull at once and can nuke down). As the bosses head up the area, they should be more significant in terms of the time taken in the section. So let’s say at current it takes you 5 minutes to clear a Lost Wing (for example). At current it can take about 4:15 to do the trash and then you nuke the boss in less than 45 seconds. I would argue they should buff the boss and nerf the trash amount comparatively so the boss takes as much as 40%-50% of the zone time to deal with so you’re being tested on handling the affixes in combat rather than being tested on how well you can paly mob round up and burst.
Secondly, I agree with some other posters there is a disadvantage for casters, hardcasters that is. Classes that lack mobility are quite heavily punished in horrific visions. Not only can they not whittle down packs whilst moving to the next, they are also having to move a lot to dodge the boss abilities or insane affixes (which interrupts their damage and prolongs the encounter). This is another issue I’ve found on my priest (I accept a fair portion of this could be because i’m not the best priest player!). Perhaps consider adding (in the future, for stuff like this) more affixes that are gentler for stationary classes with range, but more tricky/annoying for mobile classes like melee. At current we have for example:
The fiery pool - which disrupts casting when it procs
The bugs - jumping interrupts casting
The fear zone - have to move out of it, interrupting casting
Many bosses have abilities that again, are simply “move to avoid this, or take X sanity damage” - Alleria is a good example of an encounter where you spent a lot of time moving around or repositioning her, as a class that has to stand still to deal damage, this can feel very punishing and you really notice the difference when you play say a warrior where you can just keep moving around and mobs die and you’re not delaying your run by holding onto your sanity or dodging abilities.
How to do this? hard. Affixes that punish players who can move (but are melee) more than ranged static classes are hard. An example would be an affix like explosive I guess. Let’s call it Madness: Unnerving Gaze.
Unnerving Gaze
Every X seconds (decreased the more mobs you have pulled), a spectral eye will spawn at a random location 30-40 yds from you, in a wide cone in front of you.
The eye will begin to chain cast Unnerving Gaze, if completed you take X Shadow damage and are snared for Y seconds. Whilst this snare is active you take additional damage from Unnerving Gaze, stacking.
You can target the eye to kill it (has lowish hp, easily killable in a few secs). The eye is immune to all area of effect spells and cleave.
This is just an idea. It’s an affix which would produce stacking, ramping damage if you leave it alone. Static classes with range would be well palced to just toss a nuke at the eye to kill it. Melee would have to physically travel to the eye to kill it due to it’s immunity to cleave and aoe. This it would be more of a pain for them, than hardcasters. The fact the snare and dmg increase stacks means that melee who ignore eyes to cleave mobs, and then do eyes afterwards will be slowed down for a reasonable period of time due to the stacking slow.
Overall I really like the format of HVs. I like that they offer limited rewards (rewards should not be endless), but I do think running them casually (not loot) should be an option to practice. Like, for each “zone” you clear, Wrathion can download the layout onto some titan disc, and you can play a “simulation” or the vision or something. So it’s about getting better for what you have done, not preparing for content you haven’t (i’d see that as too encouraging of min-maxing rather than learning as you go and getting better, you have to have a “full stakes” go first).
The vials/CVs should be used for loot runs. So you still need vials to run the “full” version where you can progress as far as you can, get loot and HMs. In simulations you can only explore the areas you already have and practice on bosses you already have, and there are no drops. You’d be able to simulate masks as well once you’ve unlocked them and tried a run with them on before.
yes you are so wrong that you cry about a part of the content not beging fun FOR you… and instead of skipping it you complain for no reason with pointless feedback, wp man!
THE part of this patch. The part that everything revolves around for the next X months. Yeah, I feel have a legit reason to complain.
You’re so full of nonsense.
Something else for horrific visions blizz!
Please please please make the corruption bar at the bottom movable.
I use the default UI. Therefore the ability to see the bars that appear near my character to help me track resources and buffs are quite important for keeping my rotation smooth and what is on my opponent. The corruption bar itself sits slap bang right on top of my char’s resources in this way, so unless i’m constantly looking to the top left for resources, and top right for buffs and then middle to dodge stuff, I have no idea what my resources are, when to refresh buffs so I’m admittedly button mashing here and there.
Allow us to move the bar into a different position please or at least make the bar change where the resources bars underneath your character pop when in a vision because having no idea how much resources you have or when buffs are fading in content designed to squeeze every second out of you is not very fun at all tbh and just seems like an oversight. I mean why even make the bar appear right there? Would placing it just a little bit lower not have been a better idea?
i already pointed out that you can easily keep your cloack to rank1 (and if you struggle to get it to lvl 5 you have a real problem related to your capacities to play the game)
ignore the cloack, ignore HV, ignore corruptions. end of story
And I already pointed out that that doesn’t work for me.
But you don’t really read what I say. You just cherrypick some stuff you think you can twist and bend to your elitist agenda.
What is there to do for me in WoW if I ignore the big systems… nothing worth paying a sub over. And the fact that you feel that I need to step up or shut up, doesn’t mean anything to me. It has no worth.
I play how I enjoy the game and all you can do about that is accept it. You have no say over that whatsoever.
I love leveling and collecting stuff… that is all I pay a sub for right now. My alts get rank 5 cloak then I do older stuff again.
Initially I was right into 8.3. 4 chars, maxing cloak every week, maxing runs every week, rep etc.
And past two weeks I just haven’t bothered logging them in. Quite happy to just let the cloak tick over and play catch up on the ranks. I mean i’m not going to be doing Nya’lotha anyway (No guilds on my server raid at time that works for me) and mythics I spammed last season and don’t feel different enough in 8.3 to do it all over again and play “catch up” every week, staying on top of my chars.
So i’m just levelling some alts to get some class diversity on both factions and unlocking heritage armours. Worth a sub because it relaxes me.
Honestly the game gets better when you stop telling yourself “I must I must I must” and just do what you want. Maybe I want to do current content tonight, maybe I don’t. Maybe i’ll just level a random. Who knows. At least whatever I do i’ll be genuinely interested in doing, rather than working a second job in game. Naff off to that.
The game is just pixels and numbers. So unless i’m in the mood to be feeling that I actually want to see these numbers go up, why on earth bother cultivating them if it’s not making me happy? That’s why i’m stepping back from mythic this patch. I was knocking on the door of 445+ on all of my main chars on their mythic keying in the 15ish range. I have no interest in making that number 20pts higher to just do exactly the same thing all over again (and it’s not that different because of 1 affix and the fact my char shoots purple beams sometimes)
So this patch i’ll do other bits, alts, mogs, money etc. I find I do this. Some patches i’m really pushing whatever the content is, others i’m a bit more patchy on. Just how it is.
2 Likes
It’s great that that works for you, but I prefer focussing on my main.
I have cloak lvl 9, but it’s not fun.
What I am noticing though is that I’m not really enjoying the dailies in Uldum and Vale. Normally I’m all about the WQs and dailies, but these… they’re tiresome, boring, grindy… and I’m not enjoying the tentacle and eyes aesthetic at all.
1 Like
If I didn’t 3 box I wouldn’t bother… I can burn through them pretty fast.
Whilst I don’t mind the aesthetics, I agree the daily attending both zones has switched me off as they’re just not all that (that and getting to and from them is a pain in the rear).
Personally i’d recommend something like this.
In the major and minor assault zones, you can do the “repel the invasion” objective every single day. That’s right folks.
The first day you do it during an invasion’s given life cycle gives you the “big reward” and turn in a la 1500 rep plus loot chest with goodies in and the vial/big CV haul
All other days, it gives you 400 rep and some azerite, gold and war resources and about 750 CV.
you progress the bar like now, doing anything.
Add more “objectives” in the zones that progress the bar by more and give the small bonus rep, so there’s a large variety of ways to complete the zone every day.
If you wanna mindlessly aoe grind mobs, cool.
If you wanna search for objectives like “rescue so and so” cool.
If you wanna loot chests, cool.
At current the issue is everyone to get their rep and CV has to for example loot chests, which means if you can’t find any, you’re buggered. Hence tedium in hunting them down.
If you let people “repel the invasion” every day to get the bulk of the reward (an amount of rep and CV equal to ~ 3 daily quests at current) then it would be far less of a chore and encourage you to explore the zone fully over it’s invasion uptime as you know whereever you are, you can progress the quest. At current if you’re nosing about the top of Uldum for example and the quest is “Kill X Aqir goliaths” well you’re not progressing your quest at all because they don’t pop up there.
I think this is a valid concern. Blizzard has marketed the cloak to everyone, it’s the cornerstone of the patch and it integrates directly with the game wide corruption system.
The cloak might be orange, but it’s not been set up like a legendary. It’s another artefact.
Were it an actual legendary, something unique that provides player power in specific content without additional systems, I’d be absolutely fine with it being attached to visions in the way it is now. I’d probably even say it should be harder to acquire the higher ranks because, if this were a real legendary, it should be a challenge to obtain in its strongest form.
But, as I said earlier, it’s not really a legendary. It’s just another artefact. And artefacts have to be comfortably available to the masses for the systems they provide or supplement to work.
I personally love visions as they are, although I would absolutely love a practice mode for people to learn and experience the zone in their own time before trying their actual runs. I like the risk, I like the idea of pushing hard to maximise your own reward, to me that’s great.
But it’s not something an artefact should require.
1 Like
My suggestion is to remove the hot feet jump mechanic.