Yoy dont think inviting a high player.
Booting him out on final boss to bring my guild member of 300 ilevel in to drop all the loot on him?.
How about selling someone ur group spot?
“Selling a +20 SJT for RIO” and boot you for the paying customer on last boss?
We are a playerbase whove aleeady had 3 ban wavds for abusing content, and u think people wont abuse this? 
No problem. I am happy for challenge modes to remain for those who want them. To judge by the popularity of challenge modes when they were a thing however, the large majority of players dont like timers.
I think the large majority have absolutely 0 problem with timers.
If you don’t have a timer, then only tyrannical weeks will be a challenge. I would much rather prefer they add a +0 timer which could be another 20% added to a dungeon, but keep the other timers as they are. If you complete the +0 timer your key doesn’t deplete, but instead changes to a different key of the same level. It gives people a bit more leeway to practice on a specific level without having to re-build their key.
sauce
10 char
Again, I dont need to imagine what it would be like. This was the reality for a very long time in WOW, and its still the reality when megadungeons are released. This issue you describe is FAR less of a pain than the baggage M+ comes with specifically because of its timed nature.
One person leaving ruins the run. No social interaction. Only a single chance to get gear. Anything going wrong is more stressful and way more likely to lead to toxicity.
Also, RIO wont be a thing without the timers in M+. You dont need to worry all that much about how good a player is if they can be replaced if inadequate. It is because of M+ timers that you need some kind of evidence of not being a bad player before you will be considered in a pug. RIO only came about during Legion. What notable change occurred at that time I wonder? Boosting has also become massively worse since then.
I dont consider current m+ design a pain in the slightest. I thoroughly enjoy it on the most part.
My only issue with it would be some of the affixs being annoying and would rather see a m+ season with less of those.
If you don’t have a timer, then only tyrannical weeks will be a challenge. I would much rather prefer they add a +0 timer which could be another 20% added to a dungeon, but keep the other timers as they are. If you complete the +0 timer your key doesn’t deplete, but instead changes to a different key of the same level. It gives people a bit more leeway to practice on a specific level without having to re-build their key.
As per my first post, you would scrap these affixes. I think these are viewed negatively anyway.
I think the large majority have absolutely 0 problem with timers.
Based on what? How many people did challenge runs, precisely? Are megadungeons unpopular when first released without timers, or do people enjoy them more than the standard M+? And I have seen multiple recent threads complaining about leavers. This is an issue specifically due to the timer.
And to repeat, by all means, keep timers as a challenge mode. When they are moderately creative and are for a bonus rather than a binary pass fail (like Nightbane runs in Kara or the bear runs in Zul Aman), I like them. When the entire 5 man scene revolves around them, it has a large number of negative impacts on gameplay that are very pug unfriendly.
what you said is just not true. i have often plenty of banter and laugh when i do m+ with people on discord.
you have very nicely functioning voice chat in game.
just because people refuse to act social in pugs it doesnt mean all people are like that
find a guild that does m+ toghther and you will have plenty of time for social interactions while doing m+
its 2023 - the era of typing in game and "guys i dont have a mic " is long gone. stop behaving like dinosaurs.
Based on what was the statement that the majority HAS a problem with timers? Exactly, on nothing.
And the problem people have with leavers is that they leave on the first pull with still plenty of time. The complaint is about people leaving too early when the dungeon is still doable in time.
If you are M+ing on discord, this is not the representative PUG experience. As someone who does PUG because I dont have the inclination to play WOW in an organised fashion on a schedule, the experience of M+ is much more antisocial than pugging heroics in TBC or the megadungeons for example.
The M+ format emphasises efficiency over fun. That is why RIO is a thing, that is why everyone is GOGOGO mentality. That is why people jettison other people’s keystones if something goes wrong.
Also, what you are describing are ways to mitigate the issues with the M+ format and in so doing, tacitly acknowledge these issues exist. You do not, however, explain why the timer is actually a good thing.
Oh, and I dont have a mic.
Based on what was the statement that the majority HAS a problem with timers? Exactly, on nothing.
And the problem people have with leavers is that they leave on the first pull with still plenty of time. The complaint is about people leaving too early when the dungeon is still doable in time.
Based on revealed prefence. What do people do if given the choice. Challenge modes gave people the choice and they were not popular. Megadungeons are well received and have no timers, as is the case for raids.
If you left the M+ format exactly the same (I dont recommend doing this) but you could elect that have a timer and no ability to replace or not, what do you think people would go for?
If you then added in per boss loot and trash loot, it wouldn’t even be a close call.
where do you see that valor cap will be removed next week ?
majority never comes to forums. you have here like 100-200 people out of 500k - 1 mln . meaningless .
Where you know this? Where is the numbers you take your argument from? From like maximal 20 threads in forum, that dislike the timers with together maybe 300 likes? Im not sure man the most people i know participate in mplus like the challenge, even the biggest casuales that only play the first 2 months liked it. But they just casuals and playing on off for 2 months in game since ever… so idunno where you get this “major of people dont like it”
Yes, because we want to play with players on a similar skill level, not boost George and Andys first dungeon run.
You dont need RIO to see if its someone’s first dungeon run. The reality is that RIO means in PUGs, you will generally only get selected if A) they are struggling to find a tank or healer or B) your score indicates you are capable of doing far in excess of the content in question. The timer makes people very risk averse and therefore require someone above the requisite skill and gear level to be considered.
this post proves that you are looking in m+ for soemthing that was never meant to be there.
if the experience you are looking for is thc hc dungeons or megadungeons you have it in game. its called m0 .
you have there loot on every boss and can spend even a week in 1 dungeon if you choose to.
seems like m+ are not content for you - and its ok.
without timer nothing will change
Yeah but when it is about a problem with the timers. Currently the cut off for KSM is 22-23%. KSM is timing all dungeons on about +13-14. This means the far majority of players is doing keys below +13. And on those levels the timer is really non existent.
All dungeons on +10 is currently on 33%… When we speak about the majority we really speak about the lower key-levels.