I’m saying that the spec has great potential that is not being utilized right now, I didn’t say it’s broken or not working. As I wrote before, the spec is doing fine, great! only few things here and there that needs to be adjusted.
Indeed, and it sucks that they had to remove. It is never the best option. I honestly don’t know how can you end up with such conclusion of removing, reason why I have no faith in the staff working on specs!
That’s what you think, because you think that the current one is a failure. I would hope you give the spec a chance to discover it. (Just to add, ppl crying about the current SV are not the ones maining it, and all the cry makes it sounds like it is so bad, it isn’t and check the comments of the main SV players and how we are happy with the spec, yet I repeat, it has potential and few things need to be adjusted)
I would finish with this. We started with lot of differences, had our arguments and we had lot of common points where we’ve agreed. I didn’t feel we were arguing but we had a nice conversation and I thank you for that.
I don’t wanna turn this post into an endless conversation that will bring some toxicos (there is that toxic post that I’m doing my best to avoid about “RSV will make ppl happy…”)
It was a pleasure friend and hopefully one day both camps will be happy with an R/MSV
Oh man… just finishing a long conversation above and you want me to start another one xD
Before I go further, I would like to know how much you know about the current SV. I’m not being sarcastic or anything bad, but I just can’t discuss with someone who only now the previous SV and checked charts and ppl crying about the current one and believe its just a bad one.
I have an alt I am currently gearing up. I reached nearly 1,6k with sub 200 ilevel under 3 weeks of playing the spec at max level. I am not the best player but I do think that I have at least an idea how the spec plays.
Anyway i have no idea how is my experience of any relevance, because regardless of how you and I play the spec it is still at the bottom of popularity for 3 expansions soon, when ranged survival was sometimes the most popular one frequently throughout the years? Even, as said, it has been the top dps spec during legion and BFA?
Understandable when you are new to the spec, I remember when I get back to it. It isn’t an easy spec, it takes a while to get used to it and play it all smoothly knowing what tools to use and at what situation.
Are you playing it for pvp or what kinda content?
I’ve talked about this point before, there are a lot of factors, reason why I personally don’t take popularity as a factor when it comes to SV, why? first reason is People go for Hunter because they want “Ranged % Non casting” so even if we suppose SV is the highest in dps or whatever, people still go for Hunter for the ranged and non casting side.
You said it here, it was ranged, people can easily swtich from MM to BM to RSV, it offers the same pillar. But now if you are not fan of melee, you simply won’t go for SV.
I will tell you this, those dps chart raid myth are very harmful, because first it makes ppl all go for those at the top and no originality, second, people will judge you before they see your performance just because your spec is at the bottom. And we know Blizz, they boost, nerf, change, and with raids charts change too, SV was the highest at early bfa tho melee, then right now BM is actually under SV in the current chart. Do you see what I’m talking about?
If you want an advice from me, don’t care about this cr*p. Look at the beginning of this post, see what SV players what they say and how happy they are. You only hear ppl crying about SV who are actually not even playing the current one!
If you do mythic runs and raiding content and you want any suggestions about SV, you can always reach out to me, and you can also see my performance (I actually always stay at the top 7 dps meter even if the chart shows otherwise, and our AOE is one of the best currently)
“cUrReNt sV Is TrAsH iT wAs BeTtEr wHeN iT wAs RaNgEd BaCk ThEN”
Oh fish you, it is an amazing and aesthetically unique spec. If you would like to be the hunter shooting from the bow or whatever, you have 2 extra specs for it.
Since when being a hunter with the spear is the trash thing?
I like SV, not just like but I love it, just hoping Blizzard will buff the spec a bit, so it can break some stereotypes.
It’s pvp. Arenas, specifically, because nobody in their sane mind would ever invite a SV hunter for RBG’s, lol.
Anyway the arena ladder is flooded with people with 220+ item level from 1300+ onwards atm so seeing as I am able to cope with even just 200± item level vs them on a spec that is supposed to be extremely hard and skilful to play, I don’t see it myself.
…Which is why Survival should have been its whole own thing alltogether, nothing to do with hunters. Because it does not fit the hunter class, as you well showcase here: The whole idea why people pick up hunter is because they want something ranged.
If survival was it’s own class, I’d be ok with it.
See above.
But that’s the thing. Survival is GOOD dps wise in both raids and m+. And still, nobody plays it. Very few want to play with it either- Despite it bringing exactly the same utility as any other hunter spec!
I simply do not think that the spec warrants the right to exist when so few people play it, meanwhile there is a massive demand from old RSV players who want their thing back. In the scarcity of resources, something has to hit the chopping block.
I play SV. I enjoy it, but I recognize that it does not have any place in the hunter class. I recognize how harmful it is for BM and MM especially. And I recognize that it ruined a spec many people loved.
As said, good job if you like SV. Glad you do. But majority > Minority, is simply how I see good game design. Function over form.
Nobody is saying it isn’t. It just happens to be the case that just because something is super unique and cool, does not warrant it being a spec.
See shadow priests, which are miles ahead of their Legion and BFA iterations. Voidform was a mega unique gimmick, nobody disagrees with that, but it was impossible to balance and ramp-up mechanics do not belong into this game, hence it was changed.
You define Hunter as a ranged class that’s all. Sorry but melee spells been in Hunter since Vanilla, and lore wise as well, and actually we have only two melee spells, all the rest is range. But I don’t wanna make another long conversation going through the exam same things (you can read it all above)
I have already given you one of the main reasons, other reasons I’ve mentioned in my long conversation if you wanna read it again.
I’ve answered this in this comment, which is based on your definition of hunter. Check the definition when you create a class. and If you watch the first documentary about WoW, the staff said they wanted a class with a pet, and they made hunter, it was never meant to be fully ranged, they actually wanted to make it with a small shield (rogue as well) but they forgot the concept because before hunter they’ve made all the first melee classes (warrior, pala, rogue) surpassingly ranged just came with it, they havent said once they wanted a ranged non casting (reason why I wrote above I wish to see more options for ranged non casting)
My own opinion regarding this, the majority is only following the dps chart, they all abondon their main if it turns at the bottom. The minority tho sticks to what they love and I feel sorry for them that they have lost their RSV. Removing a spec is stupid, however I’ve suggested something that makes both MSV and RSV happy here:
Besides, like I said earlier, the reason most hunters who speak unfavorably about current SV is because of how it was implemented and what was taken away to “make room” for it.
It’s not about how “we just need to give the spec a chance and we will all like it”.
As for the idea of merging RSV with current MSV, it would be a failure because of what is required design-wise in order to make them into one. You would essentially end up with a less-than-fully-developed version of current SV where many of it’s current elements have to be removed in order to make room for the select few ones you’d bring in from RSV, resulting in the very same issue there. Resulting in how this new version of RSV would only serve as half of what it was.
You’d more or less end up with 2 core specializations in one, but with no room to have options to explore either of the two beyond the most basic things.
The only way to get proper closure would be if the devs return RSV to us as a fully developed stand-alone option available to the class once again. Preferably, as a 4th spec option, which is what they should’ve done with MSV in the first place rather than removing a unique playstyle in the process.
See, this is the thing. I’m ok with hunters having melee abilities- Namely, deadzone, back. I think it adds skillcap to the class and is actually a good drawback to them being able to use all their abilities on the move, which was traditionally their trademark strength.
But hunter as purely melee? No, absolutely not.
Yes, we all know the reasons, but that doesn’t change the point. Nobody plays it, even with the suggestions you imply. It will still be unpopular. Nothing will change.
NONE OF THIS MATTERS.
it does not matter one bit what they wanted to do. What matters what they did- And it turns out melee hunter did not survive the crib because it was god damn awful. And it could not be any better, because hunters as a class do not fit the melee meta.
Instead, they chose to go with what worked. And that worked for them for majority of the expansions, and that still holds true. NOBODY disagrees that Survival is unique. Nobody denies that they wanted to try something they had always wanted to try. But it failed. It has been failing for nearly 3 expansions now. It doesn’t matter what you or they wanted, the result is the same.
Function > Form. In order to have good class design, the classes must be reasonably functional. If that means sacrificing some of the uniqueness, then so be it.
Well that opinion doesn’t matter because, as said, the data shows the opposite. Survival can be top of the DPS charts and yet, nobody bloody picks it. And as I have proven, it is not a hard spec to play anyway either.
Who said it is purely melee? two melee spells and the remaining ranged.
It does, cause you said melee doesn’t have a place in hunter, and you made sound like the devs just came out of nowhere and wanted to put it there, those are all the context on why melee side was always part of Hunter.
Do I need to write the same thing x10 to finally move on? I’ve given you some of th reasons why peope won’t go for SV even if it ends up the top dps.
This conversation is turning the same as the one I had with the other person. I’m just tired of repeating things. There are points we agreed on, others we won’t, its normal.
Thing is, I’ve also added a solution to make M/RSV with some points, let us stop here.
This post was meant for current SV players, and everytime I make one, ppl come to cry again “Oh no I dont like msv, plz bring RSV” it’s annoying tbh (not saying you are doing it) but it is damn annoying. This conversation has been held in 9999 other posts, can we turn the page now? (that’s just a lil shout out, not meant personally to you)
Agree, but there are people who actually love SV and play it because of that. I think since this whole meta thing, people also won’t pick it. THere’s so many people who just pick a meta and suck at it.
I’m sure that if SV was meta, it’d be picked all over the board.
Just enjoy what you like I’d advise. For me they can make a RSV to get this discussion done with. Finally got my legendary so having even more fun!
Not gonna bother tagging each and every one of you flaming those of us who want RSV back, so this response goes for all of you:
No, not everyone “whining about RSV” plays whatever hunter spec is FotM. I have played and mostly mained hunter since vanilla and I have played all 3 specs (including both ranged and melee SV) more than just a fair bit. RSV was my overall favorite spec in the entire game and the ONLY expansion I did not bother to play nor level my hunter was Legion - because I simply couldn’t bring myself to when my favorite spec in the game was removed for no reason whatsoever.
I believe a melee hunter spec (since more than one set of weapons no longer were a thing) was an alright call - it is a legitimate class fantasy and I see no real reason that hunters in general should be limited to range. BUT it really should not have been at the cost of one of our already established specs. RSV was unique and nobody that played hunter back in the day would tell you that RSV was “too similar” to MM or BM. Just like demo, desto and affli are not the same spec, nor fire, frost and arcane.
The result is now that Blizzard is trying to appeal to the RSV players by bringing bits and pieces to MM and BM, where it does not belong might I add, while trying to keep SV at some kind of awkward middlepoint where it is not quite the same as the ranged SV, but nowhere near the Rexxar class fantasy that they were aiming for. The spec feels like some kind of weird Outlaw-engineer-hunter mix; bringing explosive granades, a random harpoon while being stuck with a spear (we didn’t even get dual wielding for whatever reason…).
Don’t get me wrong - I throughly enjoy playing SV as melee as well (although nowhere near as much as I adored RSV), but there is no way my guild would allow me to take up an melee spot that ALSO would cause me to lose damage compared to my other specs. So SV is, unfortunately, an m+, arena-, wPvP- and open world- spec only for me.
You all may be as sick and tired as you want to be with the posts crying about “bring RSV back” … But honestly - it is more than justified, imo - and in general I believe that if people are not satisfied, then they SHOULD make their voices heard instead of gritting their teeth in silence. Like it or not, that is kinda what these forums are for.
Most of us played RSV for years - and RSV was about as popular as the other two specs (having their places in the meta from time to time just like any other triple DPS class) but ever since it became melee it has had the absolutely lowest spec representation of all time, EVEN at the times when it performed remarkably well. SV was absolute god tier in m+ during some patches in BFA and it was STILL not played by pretty much anyone - so the issue is very much not limited to the balancing issues that SV more often than not experiences.
Does that mean I want them to just revert it back? Nope, I wouldn’t wish that upon those who rooted for melee SV. But I most certainly want them to either bring RSV back as a talent choice (or just make it actually viable to equip a bow) or a 4th spec (preferably last one so that they can make an ACTUAL Rexxar-oriented spec instead of the awkward combination they settled with now).
