Sounds like a skill issue to me ngl
1 Like
Do you not spec predatory strikes or what?
I got flagged by the community for saying that wow is not realistic anyway. Meanwhile you have 2 guys insulting each other on the 2500 rating post without consequences. Gotta love blizzard and his community.
1 Like
Yea their comments still there, about 15-20 comments of two guys insulting each other. Meanwhile I simply made a little joke here about how carrying so many things in the bags wasn’t realistic and got flagged by someone for offensive HAHAHA. What a joke blizzard and his community is. This forums are so freaking bad.
1 Like
Abyss i don’t see any place here that we are “insulting each other” - when some guy is writing “that i am trolling, or other guy that he’s reporting me for nothing” I simply defend my point here and use arguments.
So again briefly: I maintain my opinion, that adjusting gears to specific combat generates OP situations and should be solved other way round. If Blizzard treat swaping jewelry or trinkets midfight to be OP that’s why it’s forbidden, he should do same thing about swaping gears to your advantage like tanking gear for specific period of combat then dps gear for specific kind of combat.
And please don’t use BEAR argument, cause I’ve pointed out in several places, that bear got C-tier dps as Tank and it’s purely for survival situations, meanwhile Pala is B-tier dps tank whilst Warrior is S-Tier. Those stats simply show that Warrior draw to much benefits from turning into tank that’s why this class is considered to be S-Tier and choosen by most skilled players like Swifty who likes to play class that is obviously better than most other.
I meant the other thread where two guys discuss about pvp rankings for hours meanwhile all I said on this thread was that carrying so many heavy items in a small bag wasn’t realistic neither and got flagged and deleted for it. How is that even offensive…
lol perhaps it was deleted cause wasn’t rly on topic 
besides in spite that it’s funny notion, talking about this is irrelevant cause it doesn’t affect the game in any important part. Thou i am sad for you that you’ve been gagged. cheers!
What statistics are you referring to that makes Prot Warrior out of all tanking classes S-tier DPS?
In PvE at least Paladin Tanks are 1k beyond Warrior Tanks, source: WCL
Also Protection Warrior DPS comes the most from using Revenge, as a Frost Mage you simply should never get hit by that ability. Because it’s only usable after the Warrior mitigates a melee hit. He can ‘abuse’ another target for it and than use it on you but than again, you are a Frost Mage.
Frost Mage is literally the Hard Counter for any Warrior.
My spell reflect will be soaked by Ice Lances. My charges/intercepts by Blink or Frost Nova. The only gap closer we have is literally Heroic Throw (Talented) and than charge + stun and than you would take 1 AA and a Shield Slam before you can blink… Meantime I am 30 seconds away of ‘closing’ the gap again. Yet, you can sheep me, permafrost me and toy with me like a cat does to a mouse.
So yes, Shields and 1H weapons are needed to make a chance versus Frost Mages/Fire Mages.
Imho Fire Mages are even worse nowadays because they can slow and root whilst being able to use Fire spells…
So your argument against Protection Warrior is absolute non-existing. Also, whoever plays Prot Warrior in PvP Arena will not go far. And Battlegrounds are imbalanced by nature/comp so please don’t complain about BG’s… There are way worse imbalance issues there. Having 0 healers on your team vs a team having 2 Disc and a Hpala is fun. Matchmaking is sometimes brokenly imbalanced.
Your argument vs rets who use hybrid specs/Valanyrs holds somewhat sense. But this is currently the same for Paladins. Paladins are the most played class in PvE for Tanking and they have an S-tier Healing spec toow and recent buffs to Ret shoots them up too.
The reason why Paladins are so good is mainly called ‘toolkit’
Hand of Protection, Hand of Freedom, Heals, Divine Protection and what not. But then again, a Pala for instance would crumble against a Priest spamming Mana Drain and Mass Dispell. Bye bye Bubble, bye bye Buffs, bye bye Mana.
Also Hybrid Ret doesn’t gain much for swapping to shield. As no ability they have has the req to use one. Divine Protection or Bubble can be used with 2H, the only gain they get is a big chunk of Armor…
And guess what you’re a Mage… Your magical attacks only care about ‘resistance’ and not about Armor. Also, you can spellsteal Divine Protection… That’s 12 seconds of 50% DMG reduction… That’s not only stripping the Ret but stealing from the Ret.
You can’t bypass Bubble, which is okay. They mainly use it to heal up. Heals costs a lot of mana for a Ret anyway. So they are halfway their Mana Bar, Bubble gone, Divine Protection gone (and abused by you) so what they have left is ehm… Nothing…
Nothing a good Mage can deal with.
Get some training pal.
1 Like
Makes more sense that you swap weapons than a ring or necklace during a fight, if we wanna go for logic here.
There is a reason why every proc/usable item you put on is put on 30 second cooldown.
Arms Warriors switch to shields in combat because that’s the only way for them to access their defensive abilities and be able to interrupt casts. It is actually debilitating for them, because they are quite literally forced to do that in order to make the most of their class.
On retail warriors do not do that anymore, simply because they don’t have to, due to Blizzard removing stances and shield requirement. Using the same logic warriors switching stances is OP.
thanks guys for recent replies.
@Kuardian, it’s simple observation,
I played a lot arenas in diffrent teams. Most with unholy dk, then with frostmage, subrogue, warlocks etc. I will refer only to teams with just dps for sake of discussion.
Easiest guy to put down was dk - cause even in frost presence and all this antimagic stuff he just melts. Same with bear.
Warriors however can witstand impressive beating preg palas are simply beyond the scale.
So why Dk- S-tier class goes so easilly taken properly by rouge/feral? cause he can’t swap to stupid shield that’s why.
Simple. Think about it.
Besides warriors are S-dps class according to wowhead (link below) whilst bear is C - class.
You simply lack horsepower to compete with S-Tier classes like unholy/war/pregpal (should be also listed there).
That’s why feral is only and was always A-tier, and there is even no matchup with feral that would be considered S-Tier. (perhaps disci+feral is closest).
WotLK Tank PvE Tier List/Rankings - Phase 2 WotLK Classic - Guides - Wowhead
…The link you’ve posted has prot warrior listed as A tier, below DKs and Paladins.
He is still trying to figure out where druids put their shield during winter naps since they can pull 20k armor out of nowhere too …
It’s true, but this don’t focus too much on duels, there are tons of tricks on how to wipe people on duels, including professions. Overall, this is what classes are made for, to counter each other in ofensive/defensive mechanisms. any caster can wipe a paladin for example. It’s hard to win 1v1 against all classes, there are only few classes that you must tryhard af to be able to win all other classes. That’s why you have arenas where you can complete your weaknesses as a class with another class, and then play intelligent in order to get big ratings.
1 Like
You’re talking about Arms Warrior whilst originally you wrote this:
“And please don’t use BEAR argument, cause I’ve pointed out in several places, that bear got C-tier dps as Tank and it’s purely for survival situations, meanwhile Pala is B-tier dps tank whilst Warrior is S-Tier.”
You simply compared Bear DPS versus Protection Paladin DPS versus Protection Warrior DPS, however in your most recent reply you are talking about Arms Warrior.
So my original reply was talking about Protection Warriors simply because you talked about them and not about Arms Warriors. If you wish to correct me, please make sure you use consistency in your stories/replies.
Also I’m currently unsure what your current class is. Frost Mages would have no issues with Warriors, a Frost Mage would also have little to no issues with a Ret Pala or a Hpala.
Please bear in mind that this game is designed around the rock-paper-scissors system. That means that a certain class/build will always counter another class/build and how good you are will never change that core system, because that’s what it was designed for.
For instance, if you take a R1 Glad Arms Warrior and a R1 Glad Frost Mage, I’m pretty sure that in 70% of all duels the Mage would simply beat the Warrior. That doesn’t mean the Warrior has bad skills, it’s more how Blizzard intended for this to happen. So if you say you can’t compete against certain classes/builds you must ask yourself the question wether or not it’s a rock-paper-scissor system you are getting stopped by, a skill issue that stops you or effectively something imbalanced.
I pointed out above that Val’anyr is like the only somewhat valid point you make.
But swapping Weapons in order to get certain benefits is just part of the game design and how the game works.
You only list Warrior & Paladins who get a benefit from swapping gears, but there is so much more that is basically on the same scale, let me give you a list.
Warriors
Swapping to Shield to gain more EHP (aka Effective Hit Points, Stamina/Armor) is mainly good against melee DPS to mitigate (Block/Armor) and is only useful to use Spell Reflect (locked to Defensive Stance, -10% DMG done) and to use Shield Wall (locked to Defensive Stance, -10% DMG done)
The counter/game system idea here is kiting and keeping the Warrior at range. You can soak the Spell Reflects by using Ice Lance/Moonfire/Judgement any small instant spell that causes little harm to you. You keep any form of slow/roots up and you just sit out his Shield Wall when he pops it. Play hide and seek and keep him at range.
If you are in Arena and you are a melee, you’ll simply need your buddy to peel for you. As a Rogue you can also Gauge/Blind, DK’s can perma slow the Warrior, Mages have the best tools, Hunters have good tools too, so if you can’t ‘keep’ the Warrior in Arena at range, your comp is simply being ‘hard countered’ and than you just accept your defeat. Nothing much you can do to try and pray they make a mistake.
Ret Paladins swapping to Val’anyr/Shield / Bubble / Divine Protection
The counter here is called ‘Priest’ and / or ‘Warrior’ or just both. Disc Priest and Arms Warrior tend to be a Gladiator worthy team in 2v2 and even in 3v3 they fare pretty well.
The Priest can remove the Bubble and so can the Warrior, the Priest can dispell also any Magic buff, and you’d be surprised how many buffs are considered ‘Magic’ on top of that the Priest can Mana Burn and the Warrior can perma-slow the Ret (Hamstring, non-dispellable) also Rets weakness is mobility and the Warrior applies -50% Healing cuz of Mortal Strike.
So your imbalanced Val’anyr/Shield Hybrid Ret or Regular Ret just crumbles and vanishes against Priests or against the combination of Priest/Warrior. Again, a simply rock-paper-scissor game design here.
Druids, shapeshifting makes them polymorph and root immune. That’s powerfull against Mages, because everything a Mage uses falls under the ‘Polymorph or Root’ CC Distribution Table. You talk about Warriors swapping Weapon/Shield to unlock certain buffs (Shield Wall, Spell Reflect) and to gain more EHP, what about Druids going full HoTS and dodge your burst by going into Bearform, your entire cooldowns went down the drain and he just ‘sustained’ your burst. Or Catform to sprint away after rooting you, than heal up and go back to what he was doing before. Druids are considered the masters of recovery for a reason. You think that’s not on a different scale than Warriors and Rets able to swap to shields? Oof.
Shamans able to use perma-aoe slows who are undispellable, Ghost Wolf to get out of the Warrior/Rets melee. Kite around pillars and play the annoying ‘Slow-totem’ game and having his buddy in 2v2/3v3 beat the muffin out of you, you than decide to go on his buddy and he can freecast Chain Lightnings (or Heals in case a Rsham) and you are simply going home without a prize. What kinda gap-closer does a Warrior or a Ret has against that? Charge/Intercept has a minimum range, so if he plays the deadzone-totem tactic, we’re doomed. What has a Ret against that? Hand of Freedom won’t work against the totem, also Paladins have the worst mobility of all classes by a mile. You want him to insta-die without even having the slightest chance of defending himself?
There are so much more situations to describe where a Arms Warrior swapping to a Shield or a Hybrid Ret/Ret swapping to Val’anyr/Shield would simply stand no chance. Yet you talk about the one thing they have in order to ‘defend’ themselves and you talk from the point of view that any class can beat any other class completely disregarding the game system design of counterbuilds.
Not a single class or build is OP, some classes are tuned way better than others but that’s mainly due to either scaling or toolkit. We all know that a Disc Priest, a Hpala and an Arms Warrior currently have the highest chances to rank high.
But swapping to a 1H/Shield is not imbalanced, I gave you above situations where they simply would crumble, being obliterated to the moon and back because I described situations of counters to them.
Whilst you only described situations where you end up being countered. That or a skill issue is at play.
Your call really.
yo dont understand that if blizz allow trinket swap then whole fight will be just rotating trinkets effect on effect on effect on effect all around whole fight trinkets are far more powerful that weapon swamps
thank you @Kuardian for your thorough reply.
Kuardian you’ve refered to my “Val’anyr example” and you’ve stared to understand what I was talking about.
Blizzard considered swapping gears midfight as not fair, cause for different combat you might use different enchants or affixes.
Trinkets are also not allowed to be swapped.
@Pharah said it was done due to possilbe rotation exploit- he missed the point that they could “share same cooldown” - it’s not the reason why those aren’t allowed. The reason is you would use aggresive trinkets for slow guys and defensive for fast guys.
So, for “Fast guys” warrior and paladin can adjust not only by swapping into “Tanky mode” but also gears with different enchants and affixes, and still maintain BIG dps or BIG heals if Val’anyr is in play.
No other class in game can benefit so strongly from adjusting gears midgame. That’s why all the mechanics should be rewriten.
Finally:
Warrior - Stier dps tank
Pala DK- B
Druid - C.
Meaning: Warrior with shield is best tanky dps-er in game, simply cause this mechanics is not calculated well. That’s it.
Geez, mage complaining about warrior… You have spammable CC which warrior doesn’t have. How is that fair? Poly should have 2 min cd. And you have no limits on your slows. I think there should be DR on slows as well. Your spellsteal doesn’t have cd - it’s unfair to be able to not only dispel, but also buff yourself with others buffs. It should have been blocked in arenas, sorry.
let’s just be frank here.
you’re embarassing yourself with this nonsensical stuff and literally no one agrees with you because the point you’re trying to make is incredibly dumb, just stop. furthermore, the game is not balanced around 1v1 situations which you’re clearly talking about. furthermore, pvp in this game is a joke and has been for a very long time, save yourself the trouble and don’t work up a sweat over it.
some classes are designed around being able to swap weapons and in some cases it’s even very clearly an intended gameplay mechanic; warriors cannot use shield block, shield slam, shield wall or spell reflect without first equipping a shield.
some classes, such as mages, are not designed around swapping weapons but the class is instead designed in other ways where they simply don’t benefit from it as much and they still do very well. if you really want you can swap weapons for different enchant proccs, you do you.
if this is really such a huge problem for you then i suggest you play retail instead. unironically. that’s the game version where they listened to people like you over the years and made changes accordingly. it’s been years since i last played it but since like MoP warriors don’t need to swap to shields and onehanders anymore.
I sure hope you mean “warriors don’t need to swap to shields and onehanders anymore because they can’t use shields unless they are prot” and not “warriors don’t need to swap to shields and onehanders anymore because they can use all skills no matter what they have equipped”.
Well, OK, both of those are bad, but one is worse than the other.