Sylvanas fate

Most importantly they ruined her whole character in one go with the “now she is whole” thing and the new Mourneblade mechanic (while also diminishing the Light intervention in saving Uther’s soul).

Anything Sylvanas has done til now has been because she was not with her full soul and this basically destroyed any character building they did til now because she basically gets an instant reset.

3 Likes

It’s really weird honestly.

This expansion ruined so many good parts of WoW’s history. Basically everything that we know happened in Wotlk is Jailer’s fault. We will probably find out that Deathwing was his doing too.

Those of us that choose to remember the events as they were intended to be (and the characters behind them) will always struggle to accept this new lore.

This new narrative team has done nothing but leech on what the previous teams have built years back and in some cases, obliterate the most interesting aspects of the story.

Sylvanas is just one of them. Went from a character that had depth and personality to a clown.

3 Likes

Yep. If we accept that Sylvanas during all this time was not “whole” then that means that the new Sylvanas is essentially a new character, and the old Sylvans is dead. If it is going to be a redemption arc it’s going to be a very strange one. In general, if you introduce a story element that retroactively undermines the weight of a character’s decisions, your story does nothing but lessen that character. “Sylvanas burned thousands in Teldrassil!” becomes “Sylvanas, while under the influence of the Jailer who held half her soul, burned thousands in Teldrassil.” Ergo, had Sylvanas had her whole soul and not been under the influence of the Jailer she would probably not have burned Teldrassil. So new Sylvanas =/= old Sylvanas.

Can you even call that “character development”?

This is sadly not uncommon in the entertainment industry. No creative venture is more likely to generate profit than the continuation of a beloved franchise. And when profit dictates the continuation of a franchise then the art is likely to get lost on the way, and World of Warcraft likely remains a very profitable product for Blizzard.

I don’t think people want World of Warcraft to end either, but it feels like Blizzard is desperately trying to hold players’ attention by making the story and unfolding events bigger and more spectacular than ever before – but we don’t get to see the aftermaths of these events before Blizzard decides to move on to the next big thing, which makes the story and consequent world building fall flat.

They are also burning through content at a rapid pace – the Legion was defeated in one expansion, and in BfA we went through content in patches that could have made for entire expansions. I can’t help but wonder what drives them to do this. It doesn’t seem to be working so well for them, considering that players end up feeling cheated and their story seems to be widely disliked – and yet people still play the game. So what’s the point?

3 Likes

They need to rapidly pump the sub count so that investors keep feeding them money. The fastest way to do so is work on hype and hype is generated by the promise of incredible things. Add to this the “instant gratification” policy that BlizzVision had since Cataclysm and you have nowadays retail, a game that in order to keep an appearance of importance in the gaming world has to re-release a 15 years old iteration of itself that had for the longest time as many players as retail.

1 Like

I’ll just throw in my Sylvanas thoughts for the heck of it.
It’s always fun to see in retrospect where one’s theories diverge from Blizzard’s story.

Anyway,

I think the story Blizzard are telling with Sylvanas is one of life and hope.

Sylvanas in life is basically a happily ever after. She is young, good-looking, talented, popular, rises to fame as a Ranger General, and finds love in Nathanos.

The joy of life and a hopeful future.

And then Death comes to her door and The Lich King claims her soul.
She loses everything. Her existence as banshee and Forsaken becomes miserable and meaningless - envious of all the life around her that she can no longer have.

So she lashes out.
Everything she does is a rejection of who she was and the life she had. She’s burning all her bridges and trying to snuff out the remaining sparks of hope within herself - the emotion that only adds to her misery.
She’s set on a course to destroy the system of fate that dealt her such a terrible hand.
… And The Jailer is there, waiting, ready to help further her goal - using her destructive nature for his own ends.

But on her destructive path, Sylvanas is confronted again and again by others who still see hope within her.

Delaryn Summermoon grieves for her, saying that she’s made life her enemy and that is a war she’ll never win. That she cannot kill hope.
So Sylvanas burns down Teldrassil - lashing out again - to demonstrate her war on hope. Hope for herself.

Saurfang confronts her. His final words about the fact that Sylvanas cannot kill hope, that she’s tried and failed and just keeps on failing. It’s an uncomfortable truth, so she lashes out again, killing Saurfang.

Afterward she is confronted with Anduin who is the embodiment of hope and the good within everyone.
After Anduin is captured and imprisoned in Torghast, Sylvanas tries to convince him to join her and The Jailer.
They have a longer conversation:

Sylvanas Windrunner: So I will offer this, one last time. Join our cause, or be made to serve.

Anduin Wrynn: What kind of choice is that? Why even give me…

Anduin Wrynn: It’s the choice you never had.

Anduin Wrynn: Despite all your grand designs, there’s still some shred of your mortality haunting you, as if the Banshee Queen hasn’t entirely eclipsed the Ranger General.

Sylvanas Windrunner: Don’t.

Anduin Wrynn: Now I understand why you brought me here. Why you’ve tried so hard to persuade me. Because if you can get me to let go of hope, you finally can, too.

Sylvanas Windrunner: Enough!

So Anduin gets subjugated against his will, choosing to have faith in Sylvanas. To hold out hope for her.

Finally Sylvanas is confronted by Elune in the form of Tyrande. They fight and as Tyrande is about to win and claim her vengeance…Elune’s power withdraws from her, allowing Sylvanas to live.
Tyrande doesn’t understand why Elune forsakes her and Sylvanas basks in the hopelessness of Tyrande’s expression, saying that her goddess denies her victory.

But Sylvanas’ interpretation of the event is wrong. Elune is not forsaking Tyrande, she is holding out hope for Sylvanas.

And finally there’s the raid encounter itself where Sylvanas is confronted with the fact that The Jailer has used her for his own ends - a doubt she has had, but refused to acknowledge, because it leads to hope. Or in the words of The Jailer, she is still chained by mortality.
So she takes opposition to The Jailer, seeing him for the enemy he is.
The Jailer restores her soul and leaves her to the heroes’ mercy - an intended cruelty on his part.

And though The Jailer represents confidence in everyone’s inevitable fate of servitude to him, then Sylvanas still represents hope.

And now she’s gone so far down one path and she’s burned all her bridges and there’s nothing left.
…Except a compass. Left by someone who holds out hope for her.

And so she will embrace that spark of hope that others have held for her, choose a new path and fight for a new purpose.

Life.

The war against which she was always destined to lose. And the cause for which Elune stands. And Anduin. And everyone else. And now herself. Because that was always her fate.

TLDR: It’s the return of the prodigal son…or daughter, I guess.

That’s my bet anyway. Her story is one of tragedy. But she will be a hero.

1 Like

She’s done too much to be forgiven or to return to Azeroth. One way or another, her story will end in the Shadowlands, and it’s almost painfully apparent how.

Someone is going to have to run the Maw.

Someone is going to have to oversee the damned souls because some souls are irredeemable.

There must always be a Jailer, and if Zovaal is no longer going to fulfil that role then someone is going to have to step up and take it over.

Back up theory is that Arthas becomes the new Jailer and Sylvanas the new Arbiter.

There. That’s the story. Just to feel really smart about myself. :crazy_face:

Arthas as the new Jailer means we’ll be back there in few years when he goes “I’m the king” once again.

Given her history with well done jobs, starting with the not-really-earned Ranger-General of Quel’Thalas, to her last as the Right Hand of Evil, she managed to fail every and each of them. So i don’t think anyone would trust even a rock on her… The Judge of the Dead (especially after she sent god knows how many in super hell?)? Not sure she is qualified :thinking:

1 Like

Yes Sylvanas story was butchered, but I have to repeat one thing.

Danuser is not writing Sylvanas and he wasn’t doing so for years. Get it already.

He is lead narrative designer, even if he has not written her story directly, he gave greenlight to this abomination blizz calls a story.

1 Like

Right, which is still a different thing.

Indeed. He isn’t pointing at the writers who are executing their tasks, he is pointing at the guy responsible for choosing and assigning the tasks. Sounds about right to me.

Though we might argue about how much of that was already in motion when Danuser took over, and how much responsibility the high-ranking game designers might have in forcing the story direction.

1 Like

Which is why I think she’ll probably be the new Jailer rather than the new Arbiter, but a vacancy has been created and they badly need to ditch her. Put her in the same box as Illidan and leave her in Shadowlands.

Mythic Siege of Orgrimmar…Hrrrrrrrgh you are weak.
Chaosbolt Nrrrrh need more power.
Chaosbolt Nooo even more this my world.
CHAOSBOLT Nrrrrrrrh, I want my WORLD!
C.H.A.O.S.B.O.L.T Heh, no mount, see you next week you proud almighty warchief.

Also…she met Jailor during the end of WotLK. Hmm…she sees, that now with Sargeras gone, maybe it’s time. She escalates the war by burning Teldrassil, to fuel the hatred even more. Maybe to ensure, that everyone will chase her? She tears the crown open and leaves it there so we can follow. In the end horde and alliance alike storm the Shadowlands resolving minor disputes and aiding the covenants. Chains of Domination, now knowing that when we managed to defeat every old god left and even trapped Sargeras…she turns against Jailor. That is…IF it was her plan all along, to get everyone hate her so much, that we all will follow into the Shadowlands itself to have our revenge. But then again, such plot is perhaps too smart for the storyline.

Unfortunately you`re damn right!

She just SUDDENLY realised that Zovaal is evil god, and he has no intent to build new “Just” reality, he only wants to dominate all the Creation.

Well, at least Zovaal turned out to be logical and acts in line with his temper.

2 Likes

This is not how it went, Sylvanas was already shown having doubts, but she could only advance her plan through an alliance with Zovaal, as risky as it was. If she wanted to “set us all free” I don’t think there was another way.
When Zovaal reveals his domination intent her expression is not one of surprise, but of resignation.
Also keep in mind she doesn’t have all the information we have: we know Zovaal has been lying to her, but we don’t know to what extent. And she didn’t see the posters, she doesn’t know he’s the BBEG of the expac.

1 Like

Of course there were some other ways like, for example, tell Heroes of Azeroth truth about what terrible injustice awaits in afterlife. In this case, we will invade SL, beat Arbiter and the Eternal ones, and remake everething from our point of view. But there would`ve been no BfA as well (just no point for conflict).

No matter what. If she doesn`t understand that guy, who looks like Lich-Emperor and acts like Lich-Emperor for ages, is evil and does not deserve any trust - she is an idiot!
As Anduin once said: “Look around you! At what, and who you’ve joined. What makes you believe you’re not just a weapon to achieve his ends?” And she had no reasonable answer to this question.

1 Like

People seem to be forgetting one thing. Same thing happened with Ner’zhul, kinda.
He had to keep “pretending” serving legion, even if he wasn’t. So whether Sylvanas changed her mind 2 minutes to midnight, or played it all along…she was watched the whole time, ever since end of WoTLK. So I believe, that no matter what path she would take, if Zovaal didn’t approve of her actions and thoughts, she would be promptly dragged back to Torghast. And infact this is exactly what she was afraid of ever since her “suicide attempt.”