Not all talents were 1%. I mean once you got the shadow tap talent 100% spirit and mana regen, ow god that was so satisfying.
And then each point made stuff die faster.
Now it’s just… what is this. Why do I have to sacrifice dispersion healing for 3 seconds of movement. Like who thought this was a good idea?!
No, being able to tailor your character how you want to play it makes an RPG.
So you can play a Frost/Fire Mage or a 2H Frost/Blood DK now? Moreover the only reason the current talent system feels like there’s any impact is because most of these abilities should be built in or used to be built in by default. You get to ‘choose’ Hammer of Wrath on a Ret Paladin, come on…
You could take these specs into Raids and Dungeons and perform decently. 2H + Shield Fury/Prot was actually faster at high gear levels for dungeons. Comparing that to completing World Quests naked is asinine and you know it.
Old talents didn’t give much choice. Between the %1 talents and core talents we had like 10-15 points left for any customization. The current system gives more customization options and no pointless talent “choice”. Blizzard just needs to balance the current talents better.
Sure there were cookie-cutter builds but the thing was there was quite a few of them. Some were obvious ones like levelling build, pvp build, a dungeon speed build, a raid build. But then you would get these weird hybrid / experiment builds. I used to read up on the various ones and mix and match various builds, try them out (although I was never hard core in raids or pvp, although did a little of both).
The problem with the current talent system is there is no choice. As soon as Bliz try to make people choose they revolt. So now people talen swap for every fight. I think they’d talent swap for every phase of a boss fight if they could. Min-maxing has taken over. This is mostly a playerbase problem but bliz has encouraged it.
With the old talent system you could make your decisions to suit your playstyle and generally stick with them. You might have had raid or pvp builds where the margins were finer and you needed the edge.
And you have many more tools to tailor your character now than you had in WotLK. Hell, some people are actually complaining that specs now are TOO different and they don’t feel like playing the same class anymore.
Oh you can’t play this particular setup, then that settles it right? the old talents clearly had more variety. Did you look up a guide to cherry picking before making this comment?
Furthermore, this is what you don’t understand about the illusion of choice. That frostfire build was mostly cosmetic, it played pretty much the same as the standard fire build.
Currently a talent like Glacial Spike has more impact on your playstyle that anything in that giant WotLK talent tree.
Idk, I don’t really remember my DK starting days. And when I played Hunter in Classic, I didn’t really had that many options. I mean, I played as Beast Master on leveling part and then I switched over to Marksman and that is where it has been sitting since then. There isn’t much to play with. You go for the last spell in talent tree and then you have what? 10-20 points to play with, whats outcome is either 5% more damage to humanoid or 5% more agility, or something like that.
Not that I like current talents. Old days when you played class, you had 1 class with full access to almost all abilities. Now when you play a class, you have ~3 different classes within the class and have access to only 1/3 of the abilities.
If Blizzard will make current talents close to each other in effectiveness, this will make modern talent tree much better. For now both trees do not look interesting.
That’s literally what the game is now, a total illusion of choice. All Blizzard have done is strip each class down to a bare minimum and provide abilities we used to have by default as talent ‘choices’. Sure, you have some abilities that affect a rotation but those classes feel so terrible without it i.e Glacial Spike, it’s not a real choice in the slightest.
In the current version of WoW there are huge numbers of playstyles that are locked off that were totally possible before. If I want to play a 2H Fury Warrior - I can’t. If I want to play a Destro/Demo/Affliction Hybrid - I can’t. There’s a huge number of builds and unique playstyles that are unavailable because Blizzard have decided in their infinite ‘wisdom’ that I have to play by their rules in the way that they want me to play.
Some of these old builds were highly unique. You could choose to sacrifice raw DPS for more utility or more mana regen or more off healing. You weren’t pigeonholed anywhere near as much. Was it perfect? No, absolutely not but you cannot sit there and tell me I have MORE freedom now as opposed to back then.
Be patient WOTLK is coming back soon you will get to play your BIS expc again.
That doesnt mean we have to outdate retail to match your BiS expc.
Oh yeah retail is the real ‘gold standard’ of MMO design isn’t it?
Blizzard have trashed retail to such a degree that more people are playing an ancient, hideously unbalanced version of the game with awful talents, awful gear optimisation for most classes and one button rotations. That says it all.
What exactly is retail currently? RNG chore simulator?
Can you prove it?
My 70 ppl friends list says exactly the opposite.
Says who?
You did not play the game at all, you have 0 progress in the game how do you know how rotations are 1 button?
On the other hand in classic there is a 1 button FROSTBOLT-FROSTBOLT-FROSTBOLT-FROSTBOLT rotation.
No, its obviously what you failed to adjust, adapt and play it like all the others did.
I only played WOTLK Legion and BFA , and i prefer modern talents over wotlk one.
In old tree you had to spend X amount of points to UNLOCK next row, i am sorry that is not choice.
As for so called “cookie cuter builds” i don’t know bout you ,but i change talents depending on content ,and i don’t remember changing wotlk talents once.
Oh right ,there was less content back then.
I’m talking about Classic. I’m stating that the fact more people are willing to play a game with one button rotations instead of retail is literal proof how tedious retail has become. Read before jumping to incorrect conclusions.
Outside of a handful of servers, retail is a ghost town. Just look how many servers are essentially dead. Yes, there are more of them but compared to the days of old, it’s substantially less. Even if the populations are roughly equal, the fact that a substantial number are even playing Classic is a damning reflection on Blizzard.
Because it’s an RNG chore simulator.
No, it’s not. Illusion of choice refers to the difference in outcomes based on your inputs. And i wanted to mention this in the previous post but i don’t know how you decide what should or shouldn’t be talents, beside the facts that at some point those were baseline abilities.
The glacial spike is just an example, pretty much every spec has a row that defines a playstyle (and if they don’t, then they should), but there actually is choice there, the Vision of Perfection essence made Thermal Void a viable alternative, i’m actually using it on my mage.
But in the current version of WoW there are a huge number of playstyles that were unavailable in the past. You guys really like to point out things we don’t have anymore without also mentioning that in most cases they were actually replaced, not lost.
Also that infinite “wisdom” was partially asked by the players who wanted specs to feel more different, maybe you were happy playing Arms Warrior with the wrong tree and Bloodthirst instead of Mortal Strike but a lot of them wanted more.
Ive also requested you to prove your “fact” because in my 70 people Friends List only 3 play classic.
Next valid arguement?
Servers are merged, you even know what you talk about?
Obviously not.
There is zero RNG in my classes, monk/druid/priest
How exactly there is RNG in your class and what class is there that its rotation is based on RNG besides the cookie cutter outLUL king of M+ ?
LMAO.
Let’s have a look at your gear shall we?
‘Open Palm Strikes’
When fists of fury deals damage it has a 5% CHANCE to refund 1 chi and deal X extra damage
‘Fury of Xuen’
Your combo strikes grant a stacking 1% CHANCE for your next Fists of Fury to grant X Haste
‘Elemental Whirl’
Your damaging abilities have a CHANCE to grant you Elemental Whirl increasing X stat by Y amount
I see you have Twilight Devastation. Total RNG diceroll that makes or breaks your dps.
Most of the classes in the game have DPS rotations based around random procs and then the gear is yet more random procs on top of that. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
This is my visions/WQ spec. I main MW but i will explain you.
You dont take this trait for the 1 chi, just for the extra damage. Damage is always there, chi is a chance.
STACKING, the more chi you spend the more it procs chance gets up to 100% and that is not chance. its 100%.
Pretty useless to me but still better than the rest.
Not at all because even your dream XPC that you did not play had procs based on chance or you forgot that?
Name them. Since you know
By looking at your armory and achievements you have zero XP in the game. yet you have an opinion and i dont know and you do. Right?
You remind me these LFR heroes that went to classic stating How BAD BFA is and how brain dead mythic raiding is while they didnt manage to complete a M0 dungeon.
Op you took completely wrong turn!
Classic forums here :
The fact is, your DPS in this game is dictated largely by procs outside of your control. Sometimes the stars align and your DPS is higher based on pure chance. The clue is in the word, chance.
i.imgur. com/qSNHSB5.png
Need I say any more?
Ret Paladin with Art of War and Divine Purpose Procs, Enhance Shaman with Stormstrike Procs, Demo Lock with Demonbolt Procs, Fury Warrior with Enrage procs, Arms Warrior with overpower + execute procs, Affliction Lock with Nightfall procs. Not to mention Azerite Gear that adds yet more chance on top of these things.
I never said Mythic raiding was braindead? It’s much harder than anything Classic has to offer. How do I remind you of someone like that when I’ve said nothing of the sort? You’re really clutching a straws here.
You dont because its absolutely obvious you are clueless.
This nice screenshot is from a pvp player, well known and that “proc” is nerfed now.
Newsflash for you?
Damn you know alot, now tell me all the WOTLK procs.
Go on 
I love how you keep talking about things you dont know and never played.
Thats the typical LFR hero behavior 