Tanking is the hardest job

Community General Discussion
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Here me out first :sweat_smile:
Healers are very close tbh.
DPS are just mindless beasts who need a skull or a cross on a mob before interrupting so they are out of the picture :wink:

Why tanking is hard imo:

  • Point one is that we are the face of the group, the first line of defence. If we fall itā€™s likely a wipe when no CR is deployed (and even that by the time accepted the ress someone would die as well). This separates tanks who use defensive a well and the ones who donā€™t.

Which leads into

  • Point 2: We need to build experience all the time the higher we go. We need to innovate, knowing every spell of every mob (heck I even know exactly the seconds the mob starts casting after the pull without addons and I call it in chat) knowing every tank busters, knowing every trick to help the group perform better (position, los, knockbacks)

And the latter relates to the following

  • Third Point: knowing the classes in your group, from not moving much when in group with frost mages or shamans, or kiting in a way that does not disrupt the group DPS. Knowing the interrupts available (WA), knowing the CD available of the group, pulling accordingly and more important survive the pull when you donā€™t have CD yourself (because DPS are mindless beasts who donā€™t care of the tank defensives). And thatā€™s a feat of its own. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

So knowing the pulls is the next

  • fourth Point: knowing the dungeonā€¦ oh that easyā€¦ just go and do the mapped route you did on MDTā€¦. Except sometimes people donā€™t have invis pots sometimes, or theyā€™ve used it, or people pull more mobs and we are over countā€¦ and we need to find a way to get the right route and time the key. We need to know what to pull, the right amount to pull and when something goes wrong, react to the pull when everybody else in the group freaks out.

Which leads to the final

  • Fifth Point: we need to be aware of everything that could happen, we need to help the healer mitigate the damage, we need to lead the group, we need to assign the interrupt, call the stuns, move the mobs from affixes, knowing the affixes, survive the affixes (me as paladin also dispel the affixes and help the healer with off heals). On top of that trying to maximise the damage to quickly clear the dungeon

Lets hear from the healers side now :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: what do you do?

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Eh, first off I donā€™t see what good comes out of this one upmanship on ā€œwho has it harderā€.

What I will say is despite all of the above tanking now is pretty easy because tanks are practically immortal unless you misplay. Party all dead at 30% on the boss? No biggie, go make a coffee, tank will finish it.

Healers generally have to cover for all the parties bad play.

And it also goes unnoticed but sometimes you do a 22 and you have to heal less than the average 12? Thats the dps not standing in stuff and doing a great job with stops.

So all roles matter, who has the hardest or who matters the most probably depends on moment to moment.

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I think if you have a group without voice comms then itā€™s going to be harder than it needs to be.

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All of this is true for actually good DPS, too.

Itā€™s true that in lower keys, and non-competitive content, tanks need to initially know more, mostly the dungeon layout and their active mitigation. Up to a certain level, a DPS player can just get by, though even here having good DPS players makes everything easier for the tank and healer (stuff dies faster, fewer spells go through, less damage is taken).

As for the healing side, you can coast by as a healer for quite some time, too. Not as long as a damage dealer, but in leveling dungeons and in low keys you often just tag along and could probably just click on your party members and your spells.

As the difficulty of the content increases, Iā€™d say healing is the most challenging role because you have to know everything the tank and dps know, and in addition you have to compensate for the mistakes of everyone (tank included) and track peopleā€™s defensives. You also need to know what debuffs do so you can decide if you need to remove them (dispel CD, GCD) and, if multiple people get them, who to dispel first. Then you are also expected to interrupt (if you can), CC, and deal meaningful damage whenever you get the change, all while managing your mana.

In raids (at least in normal and heroic), tanking is by far the easiest role. DBM tells you when to taunt and most raid mechanics are very easy for the tanks.

Actually, I think the only uniquely hard part about tanking is that you need to learn routes early on (before other roles need to do the same) and the psychological challenge of being in the spot light. Mechanically, tanking is pretty easy overall and you mostly have to pay attention to yourself. If you mess up, you wipe unless the healer can compensate. The anxiety that this spotlight produces is probably the main reason why people shy away from tanking.

But I find this whole ā€œwhose role is the hardestā€ debate somewhat pointless. Once you get to non-trivial content (what exactly that is depends on the player), everyone in the group needs to pull their weight or youā€™ll be less likely to succeed.

Iā€™ve done plenty of keys that failed because the damage of DPS was too low, because nobody interrupted, because people didnā€™t use their defensives, and because players failed at mechanics. My success as a healer is directly dependent on how well the DPS players in the group perform. Good dps can compensate for inexperienced tanks too.

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You are imagining stuff.

In an M+ context, its team-work that times keys.

DPS have it as hard as tanks and healers. And they also need to know the dungeon well.

This ā€œmithosā€ that its easier for a DPS is plain false.

In addition, unlike tanks and healers, DPS is the only uncapped roll. So the better they are, the more noticeable it is.

so TLDR : Stop propagating a false mythos.

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You forgot the sixth point: you being a badass!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thank you for making me laugh today.
I play as a tank, but recently I decided to do some 24-26 keys as dps too, just to see if people who complain that dps is so hard are right or not.
And I can tell you that tanking is way harder, a lot harder. There is a HUGE pressure while playing a tank. When I play dps, i shut down half my brain. I almost fell asleep in a 26 AD. DPS = follow tank + pewpew + intrerupt + defensive. Thatā€™s ALL.
And I can tell you this because i play both tank and dps. Have you tanked high keys?

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Iā€™ve played tank to +23, healer to +24(tried a few 25s) and tried up to 27 as DPS.

DPS is easy as hell compared to both tank and healer.

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I hit my limit on 24-26 on healer, 19-20 as tank and 18-20 as dps. It is just what you are more experienced and comfortable in.

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Canā€™t you just shut down your brain tanking a 26 AD? Whats complicated there for a tank? Press button for rezan bleed?

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Somehow topic turned into my biggest key done diary blog post :thinking:

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Very insightful spiel.

Objectively, since there is only one or two of them, their mistakes are more apparent thus making the role more difficult to play.

Oh and by the way, it is from moment to moment and not ā€œon moment to momentā€

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I mostly tank and i find it to be the easiest. I am guessing that those who dps or heal find those roles to be easier.
So yeah, it depends on what have you been acclimated to.

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You dont know how to play keys. Have you healed high keys? Because as a tank you dont see it. You just zug-zug your pulls.

I can tell you right now that the difference between a good DD and a mediocre one is MASSIVE. You CANT time a key with a mediocre DPS unless the other 2 have carry power. Simple as that.

And your attitude is a testament to how nerfed S3 is.

Like I said before. Its a team effort. If you plan on playing solo and treat your team mates as NPCs then be my guest. But you wont get very far. Even as a tank.

You will deplete MORE keys than you time. You just got lucky in ONE AD26 that everyone and their mother can do. Try it in a 28. :slight_smile:

Also, there is a big reason as to WHY DHs are not taken anymore in the meta. They used to be meta because their damage is overtuned. But now, any other class has overtaken DH. WHY?

Wellā€¦ Rets have BR, they have auras, they off-heal, dispel, have more deff than DH, stack versā€¦ the list goes on.

And if a ret uses all its toolkit, as he should in a high keyā€¦ its as hard as healing. But the impact is SO MUCH more noticeable.

The difference being: If DDs donā€™t play with teamwork in mind, you will deplete 9/10 keys. And time 1/10 when the other 4 people can carry you. If you play with teamwork in mind, you will time 9/10 keys.

Why? Because DPS is the only metric capable of carry power. So thank the other 2 DPS that were ACTUALLY playing better than you in that AD26 and carried you. Simple as that.

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In a raid environment since itā€™s a lot more predicatble and orchestrated the hardest job is whoever is peer pressured in to doing the mechanic nobody wants to do lol.

I think healers have it tougher at the moment with the way damage intake seems to be this expansion (and probably Shadowlands too?). Seems to be significantly more spikey and in higher keys if you forget to pre-emptively use a cd then someone could go from full to zero.

Once a tank learns a route with packs theyā€™re comfortable with in m+ then itā€™s down to what the healer can manage.

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Making sure you walk in the right direction sure is hard.

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Is op Mindy?

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Whats a thread here without a sprinkling of humblebragging?

Yes.

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My key range is lower than yours, so I canā€™t comment on 25-27s, but in the low 20s the difference between a good dps and an average dps is really huge and makes all the difference in my runs. I canā€™t tell the difference as much with tanks, and I havenā€™t played much with other healers in a while.

Like Dejarous said, there are groups where a +12 is harder to heal than a +22, and it largely comes down to the skill/experience level of the DPS players in the group. The worst key I healed was a +17 that both the tank (who I was in a VC with) and I were overgeared for, but it was a total slugfest that was just barely in time because the damage was so poor, boss tactics were unknown or ignored, and somehow nobody found their interrupt button.

I sometimes watch Wowgrandma78 on Twitch. Sheā€™s a now 82 year old lady with a 3k rating who heals low 20s. She frequently gets DPS players in her groups that easily do 50%+ more damage and take a lot less damage than the DPS players in my groups, and that makes all the difference. I used to worry more about tanks, but I feel that at least in the low 20s most of the tanks play adequately to finish in time. It really comes down to the DPS players, I feel. (I also have a ton more to learn about healing.)

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that is true unfortunately it seems that the key level that a dps can just get by is very high, at least if only 1 dps is terrible.
Considering I had terrible dps in a +23 and we still easily timed it, I would assume the key level that dps can just get by is like +25?
While a terrible healer / tank will probably end their luck at around 15 and only if the other part tank/healer is good enough to carry it home.

it was the case when tanks actually could die.

we carry everything because from the unique perspective of watching health bars and enemies and mechanics, you see who fails the most and you have to make up for it while also doing dps and interrupts.

healer is by far the most exhausting.
DPS is the easiest but also not easy if you want to be good. It is more of keeping your dps high while doing the dance, which isnā€™t so easy actually.
tanks are mostly chill. I played my tanks in 20s and I found it to be the most easy and relaxing role in DF.

you can notice big gaps in dps players for sure and of course a main factor will also be ST dmg, because most people do well on padding aoe for some reason.

I must also say, I very rarely have a terrible tank. Most tanks are decent. Here and then I had tanks that didnā€™t press any mitigation and blame the healer they died from DHT first boss charge, but that was quite rare.

Just from % I can say that the % of bad dps is far far higher than the % for bad healers and tanks. Healers are a little higher % from being bad than tanks, as healers can get carried higher by a good group than bad tanks.

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I digress. Ive had more than my fair share of dumb tanks.

Because the job of the tank is not just pressing buttons and surviving. Anyone can ā€œpress buttonsā€. Not a big deal really.

A tank has to know who he is running with (the comp). And has to watch out for the parties CDs. They just YoLo their route they re-defined with no reason whatsoever. The party will ā€œfigure it outā€ā€¦

Not fun.

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