Thanks Blizzard for making the game less fun

PVP War Mode and World PvP
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I have not turned WM off since it first was put out, I love world PvP killing people and getting killed while doing WQ is the whole point of it. The 30% buff that was meant to switch sides and never actually did is fine I don’t care much about AP and war resources, but giving alliance ilvl 400 gear is really unfair. But what truly pushed me over the edge is this stupid quest that making Alliance camp flight point being completely unpunished it is not fun going anywhere just to know you will die when you land and stand no chance. So thank you blizzard because you ruined one of the only 2 things I still like about this game, now just raiding is left.

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Player choices comes into this. Certain fps are gonna have more trouble than others. You could avoid em. For example, the one near Drust az wq… call to arms quest in drust means avoid it.

But, you could look at a concentration of enemies in another mindset… they are raid fodder. It’s even more fun to wipe a bunch of enemies that you think are in the wrong somehow.

The more horde quit wm though, the more likely you will get those extra incentives.

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I turned it off as well.Had it on since day one but I wont take part on this joke anymore.I suggest everyone to do the same as a way to protest unless you enjoy getting farmed for free gear to the enemy when you got nothing at all.

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That guy got it. Everyone turn off war mode horde side. Result… no targets for alliance, no way to do that quest, no gear for them.

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More and more hordes turn it off - faster it switches. If what you said is true - you’re going to get it next week - bonus, item. But only for a week tho, Alliance are going to turn it off just as fast as you all turn it on for a shiny new 400…

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I love my ilvl 400 staff I got this week.

ingredient was salty tears of 25 horde.

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Except we wont. Most that will happen is Alliance will lose 5% of the buff and the free gear will be downgraded to 385 next time. Average horde wont see conquest gear at 400ilvl for 10 weeks and will almost definitely never get the free gear quest.

Meanwhile…playing solo and being corpse camped for over an hour by 40+ alliance…not a single other horde in sight :thinking:

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I blame Horde for this atrocity!
But still, you’ll feel better when Alliance doesn’t have this quest ether…

I know the feeling, but reverse - 40 hordes vs 1 me. It’s np, it’s WPvP - you can do anything and anything can happen to you.

Land on safe FP and use general chat to scout the zone - this will help you to find the least camped way to your destination. And then - group up.

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It’s a… multiplayer game… form a group. You have more allies in lfg than Alliance do. An advantage. Use it. Or play solo, whatever is fun. But don’t expect solo play to be easy. Would you solo a pve raid? Course not, why would you solo an assault or over pop wq? WM is pvp… pvp is beating your enemies… if your enemies outnumnber you, you need to then gather your allies and outnumber them. That’s wm. Wipe the opponents, then do you bizinez.

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Well, that might be a long time coming! Blizz have stated that horde still outnumber Alliance as a whole but its now roughly half as bad as it was previously. That being the case, and the fact the alliance buff is only getting reduced by 5% probably means the the horde wont be getting a free gear quest anytime soon (this year?:smirk:)

Easier said than done! Been ganked by raid groups at multiple FP’s in horde lands.

I love WPvP and I want it to be fair. For the record I took absolute no enjoyment when it was 40 horde chasing 2 or 3 alliance across a zone. It got boring after 3 minutes and i only ever joined a raid group farming in this way once…
I’ve noticed though that you’ve used this “horde has an advantage in lfg” argument in several threads on this subject. Do you have any evidence to support this assertion? or is it just based on the assumption that horde must have a lfg advantage because there is more horde overall?

All I can say on that subject is that last night when I landed in Vol’dun I was ganked 30v1 by an ally raid and corpse camped. Looked in lfg and there was ONE horde raid doing PvP which consisted of no more than 15 players.
15 minutes later, trying to get to tortollan quest I’m ganked 40v1 buy a different ally raid. Again, looking in lfg there is only one horde raid group and again no more than 15-17 people in that raid.
Whatever lfg “advantage” horde is supposed to have I’m not seeing if when I look for groups!:yum:

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Yeah, I get it.
But Alliance probably won’t get it too, if there is no severe outnumbering, if it is any conciliation.

I know how it is, had whole 8.0 to learn it :smirk:
There is always at least one inconvenient for comping FP in a zone - like very little WQ around it, or location is not busy with traffic, etc. Find it - and that is your point of arrival into the zone.

But it can’t be fair in a way most players talk about it.

You see - there are no limitations in WPvP. You can use anything and do anything - all the items and abilities that you want, group up with as many players as possible, or don’t; camp, fight, raid something whenever you want and however you like.

But for all those options and possibilities there is another side of the coin - anything can happen to you, and just like you don’t owe anything to anyone, anyone don’t owe anything to you.

And that is how WPvP is fair.

I get it, and I don’t enjoy it also. But I join/start this kind of groups/raids from time to time to kill those 2 or 3 in hopes that they will get angry and form a counter-group/raid - so we could have great fun (when it’s not lagging ofc). Just like I do, when I’m getting ganked by overwhelming odds.

Yes, every day I played, before Season 2 started. I’d posted about it too.

The most colorful examples are assaults. Or were assaults, idk how long this horde drought is going to last, maybe after most are done with the new raid…

Anyway, I was spending hours on every assault that was up when I login. If there was no Horde raid when I arrived, then it happened like:

  • Alliance group killing Horde
  • Horde starts to group up, and then there is a raid, in a matter of 5-10 mins, majority of names in this raid are with other non-RP realms tags, that can’t be phased with us naturally. So LFG.
  • We start a group in LFG to counter, 30-40 mins and a lot of running or deaths later, we got our 40 man.
  • By this time Horde raid got more players, like some random groups from our RP cluster, sometimes another raid, again with names from other non-RP realms.
  • And so Alliance wins always were before Horde started gathering, and after a few hours of Horde dominance, when Assault was over and there was nothing more to do for majority in Horde raid so they left.
  • Every time Alliance counter-raid was crushed, half or so players were leaving, and another 30-40 mins, sometimes an hour, to get a full raid again.

The longest time Alliance raid was left to ganking - was about 30 mins. Once Horde started to group up - it never took more than 15 mins to see a full raid roaming from one side of the assault to another, and Horde bounties popping up constantly.

But, closer we were getting to Season 2 - the less that was happening, and lags killed all of it almost completely, on both sides, before Season 2 started.

Plus, weekly quest and it’s gank-groups also played their part.

In 8.0 it was worse, because no matter how good and fast we were with LFG - we could never get as many and as fast.

But now, in the last few days - yeah, it’s not happening. 2 Assaults, and I had to look for Horde on both really hard. And there was no retaliation even once. Plus CtA in Drustvar + some AP WQ in Stormsong - only a few times in many hours I saw hordes getting in a group of 5, both times just to be crushed to oblivion a 5-10 mins later, if not immediately.

Idk, if it’s a result of new raid opening, or so many Horde turning it OFF, or both - but I don’t like it. And already made a few post about it - I need more Horde, there are not enough targets :wink:

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There’s potentially more horde in wm lfg, so an advantage. Evidence = 30% wm bonus. It’s not a guaranteed advantage, but an advantage nonetheless.

Sure, rewards could be equally available. But blizz feel we need more alli in wm. How else to encourage that without some sort of incentive, that the opponents don’t have. Alli needs more lfg! But, ye make extra rewards only for players that keep wm on full week. That reduces the mini gank squads, and pveers.

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Thanks for your considered reply. Many points to ponder on.

I wont pretend to have analysed it to the degree you have. All I can really say is that I don’t really enjoy WPvP when one faction noticeably has the upper hand. Whichever faction that may be. (I spent the first 3-4 years of this game as alliance).

I say that as a veteran of the original Southshore/Tarren Mill encounters when dishonourable kills were a thing and %buffs and “epic” rewards wouldn’t have even been considered for what was basically a load of players deciding for themselves to “duke it out” somewhere in Azeroth.

The truth is. Horde players are just like alliance players. Many players play both factions. People like to label one faction with certain traits. How often have you seen people, even on the alliance side say “omg…lose so many bg’s bcus the alliance is full of 12 year old whining kids”…you see that kind of generalisation all the time and it simply isn’t true.

I myself have been guilty of saying that as soon as the alliance lose their advantage buffs and free loot they’ll turn WM off. Well, so will the horde too! People like their shiny purples and I dont mind admiting for one second that it smarts a little bit that just because of the faction I chose to play, i dont get some ilv 400 gear. People may claim otherwise but gear progression is a part of this game.

What matters most now though, and i think this is a good thing is, with WM on, the world feels like a dangerous place again. I like that feeling of unease. I might swear like a b**ch when an alliance raid ganks me but ok, ill get them in a bg at some point :wink:

Ive been WM on with all my toons since BfA launch and that isn’t going to change. Please. Just /wave or /dance before I get nuked! :grin:

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I understand the numbers thing but I don’t understand how Blizz are calculating it. There could be potentially a huge number or horde with WM on who never actually bother to engage in PvP. They’re just there for the 10% buff.

I agree that rewards are needed to encourage people to participate. I just think its sad that its come to that. Back when i started playing someone would say in guild chat “there’s a raid going to Tarren mill…anybody want in?” and we’d all leap at the chance. Same as when people used to raid faction capitals.

There is something wrong though with either how the shards work or how it is calculated because currently for me, i meet multiple alliance raids when im playing solo and when i look for a horde raid, the most a horde raid seems to be able to muster in terms of numbers is 15-17 players. If there is a genuine numerical advantage to lfg horde then it isn’t borne out in my experience of trying to get lfg horde PvP groups right now.

Peace

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Ye, the horde lfg advantage is theoretically there, horde have access to more… in theory. But you are right, what % of players in wm are actually there to pvp, and like groups, and have something they want to group up for, and bother to use lfg. Not always easy to group, but makes it interesting.

Ideally, I’d love to have my wpvp community gain a good number of regular wpvpers, and not need lfg. Got some regulars, need more! Then could form raids any time and protect our wqs and fps even better. Ah, the dream.

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Yeah! Those are one of the best memories! I was on a Tarren Mill side back then tho, haha

There was a Honor system back then, and WPvP was adding to it’s progression, and with it to potential progression of your character. So doing WPvP didn’t feel like a waste of time from a RPG-progression point of view - there were rewards too, not as direct as now, but more on it later.

Big WPvP battles always started with bigger group ganking solo/small group, then they called for reinforcements. If there was no battle going on, and you wanted to start one - land in Tarren Mill, start to gank everything, then Alliance 60s landing, then Horde calls for more … and then it doesn’t matter in which direction you throw you abilities - you going to hit someone all the time, for the next hour at least.

Ppl will always do that, ether to make fun of someone, or simply because they can’t think of something that actually makes sense but feel the need to validate themselves or the argument they are making. Like insults can help with any of that, but well…

There is one quite big difference between current Alliance and Horde player-bases, and it’s a result of mass switching to the Horde over the past few years. Better racials, then more players that interested in progression in a certain game-mode, then bigger pool of players for recruitment, then bigger pool for those who is searching for a guild to progress with, etc - all that lead to bigger part of players with progression / competitiveness / efficiency on their minds to go to Horde.

Because of it, now - Alliance has many more casual players who cba to do something if there is no reward attached to it, while Horde has many more efficient players, so to say.

It’s easy to say that Blizzard should solve that problem instead, but it’s not that easy to solve, mainly because even if Devs are going to go that way - it’ll take another few years to happen, even with free faction changes. And players want to play now, not in those few years.

That’s why, system needs to have additional incentives for those “cba players”. Yes - both sides have those, one just have more of them. And that is one of the reasons I don’t like that “bonus-system” in all of it’s forms - while it tries to solve that problem, and rather successfully so far (no denying that), it creates more problems around it that have no solution without changing the system.

Yes, gear progression is VERY important part of this game. Even in WPvP, because it’s random who you going to meet, and players need an ability to improve their chances of winning. Plus - it’s not good if by selecting/liking/enjoying certain game mode, that requires you to actually actively play the game, player is cut out of other parts of the game - such as gear progression.

Many (if not majority) of players on both sides are asking the same questions - “Why would I stay in it more than just for a few fights/ganks if it doesn’t give me other fun things - like ability to progress with my character? I can do any other part/mode in this game an get something towards progression, while most of WPvP doesn’t give that.”

And it’s a reasonable concern, because it’s true.

Theme-park MMO such as WoW has to have incentives for all kind of players to do something.

I play with War Mode ON 100% of the time, and even if there is no rewards - I won’t switch it off. But it’s because for me it’s the only thing in the game that is really fun to do, especially after my latest try to come back into PvE - yeah, it’s only WPvP that is fun for me.

But it would be wrong to assume that everybody has to play for the same reasons I play. And I really need other players in a MMO WPvP to join with and to pew-pew at.

Plus, it would make game much more enjoyable for me if I thought less (just less) about doing things I don’t like doing to get gear, and had a possibility to progress with gear and ilvl (on a slower rate than Rated/PvE, but faster than now) while doing WPvP.

Temporary incentives are good. But not as a part of a “bonus-system”. If they were a part of “gear progression system” they would work a lot better, because both sides still had the same things to work towards, while underrepresented side had a temporary additional bribe to correct balance when needed. And it wouldn’t feel like not-fair for anyone reasonable, because they would still had an ability to make a noticeable progression even without that temporary incentive.

Yes it matters the most and it’s a very good thing! :smiley:
Not in a last few days tho. It’s not dangerous and barely alive, and I don’t like it that way.

Hahaha, nice!

Same!

:rofl:

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Just refuse to participate under these odds… Every horde player has to Turn wm off asap.

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Agreed. I am not participating in this free heroic raid gear clownery.

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Well they should just remove all the static rewards from WPvP. Instead they should just add more proper w-pvp objectives which in their own way grants some “benefits” to warmode but instead focusing on the PvP aspects of the game.

PvP objectives for each zone, which grants some AP, War Resources, Honor and Conquest. Then tied to these missions/objectives and W-PvP related gameplay they could re-introduce the old PvP ranks. Ranking up whould then instead increase certain gear related WQ’s Ilvl’s and perhaps even some of the daily/weekly rewards.

If you start of as a Squire - You whould get the basic PvP gear WQ’s showing up. Get mild bonuses from weekly/Daily missions etc.
Once you have ranked up to Corporal all gear whould increase by five and the rewards also increase a bit. Then they could just spread out the remaining ranks by season.

Let’s say that the maximum you could achive in Season one whould be;
Master Sergeant - The basic 355 Azerite whould had become 370 and rest of the gear rewards 375. Then all rewards for world pvp WQ’s and missions whould had a 20% increase.

In season two, they unlocked the Knight Captain / Legionare ranks. Which whould add 400 Ilvl Azerite and 395 Gear rewards from PvP WQ’s.

Keep in mind that ranking up whould take time and only by killing other players and doing WPvP content whould progress this rank. Ofcourse a catch up whould be in place once a season have come to pass. So that people who start of later won’t be a whole season of quests etc. behind.

Maybe even make the warfronts part of this system and there should always be WQ’s up here for WM-On players, just that the nature of the WQ’s change depending on if your “patroling” or not.

This way warmode whould have it’s seperate progression system which whould be to time consuming for most PvE:ers but over the course of a season very beneficial for WPvP:ers.

The issues with Warmode are it’s “bonuses”. You get bonuses for just being in it, strong talents, more exp, gold and AP. If these things whould be dislocated from the ordinary content and instead get pushed into it’s own PvP related category most PvE:ers whould opt out, since specific PvP related things whould not be of interest to them if it took too much effort.

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Fair points.
I will not turn WM off though. I’ll die like a true Hordie, fearless and retarded<3

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