The 9.2 Tier for Havoc is insulting

All the other tiers… exept for havoc… empower skills or other mechanics that cand be USED or ACTIVATED in EVERY rotation WHITHOUT NEEDING a mandatory talent TO BE USED.
However Blade Dance without the talent First Blood can only be used in AOE situacions with at least 3 targets and that is not even true in with all talent sets in witch Blade dance it is not even used in AOE

Also this tier is extremely bad even to force us to use Blade Dance with First Blood and Trail or Ruin instead of other options:

  1. 20% increase of damage is insufficient to make Blade Dance competitive even within the same specialization. Besides that it is still not clear if the damage of First Blood also increase with this set, making it less appeling
  2. Refund the cooldown and cost of an ability that can have between 4 to 7 seconds cooldown and a cost of 15 furi with the mandatory talent every 5 uses is nothing, and the 15% proability of replica is also too poor. Besides, this mechanic don’t even fit with Trail or Ruin, since we will need to wait for 4 secons until the dot expires since the damage of this dot can’t be accumulated… and in some situations in 4 seconds we can use another Blade Dance without needing this free one that this useless tier give us

Please change the Tier Set to empower other mechanic or make Blade Dance useful or at least USED in single target situations without wasting an important talent to use an irrelevant skill that nowadays wouldn’t even be competitive in the specialization itself with the new tier bonus.

The DH comunity have been asking to improve Blade dance all this expansion, but that’s not an improvement, is wasting a tier.
Make First Blood baseline or at least a nerfed Frist Blood or other mechanic to at least make us use Blade Dance in all situations without being a waste of time an resources if you definitely want to force us to use this tier

13 Likes

Yeah, it looks bad at the moment, but as people are pointing out on the discord, nothing is final. They will receive a lot of feedback from the PTR, and hopefully they realise it needs to be changed.

In my opinion, they’ve done this in response to blade dance being weak and its associated talents being underused. I’m glad they’re trying to fix that, and I hope this is just an initial idea that they will develop into something useful during the PTR.

2 Likes

Yeah, but until they change all I said this tier will be the worst tier
And Blizzard until now ignored all the criticism about Blade Dance and First Blood of all the comunity
Nothing indicates that they will listen to us now

Meanwile all the other tiers are functional, ones more powerfull that others but at least can be used without mandatory talents that don’t compensate their use

2 Likes

this is why i always hated tier sets, forces you into a playstyle for the entire patch.
in this case our bonuses feel underwhelming, steaming pile of sht.
especially the rng…god how i ahte this f
***ng rng.
i swear we don’t ahve a class designer anymore, or he has a h@rdon for monks and rogues.

6 Likes

I have a weird feeling, someone forces me into playing one and only build, and use spell that I normally don’t even use, why does everyone else gets “after using a spell that you use anyway” or “after using X offensive spells your next ANY offensive spell” etc… and I have to use something that I don’t even like nor use normally.
Right can always skip tier set…
The worse part is there is a high chance they won’t change it because devs probably come up with it and will stick with that cuz it’s amazing and players will love it.
Also doing anything related to that skill will be hard to balance it’s too strong on PVP already.
Instead of refunding can we at least get something like generating furry or just flat % of dmg to other skills.
tbh even something like after fully casting eye beam, your next 5 spells are empowered regardless of being in meta or not, like anything not related to that skill would be amazing.

2 Likes

There are literally 3 different and competitive talent builds you can run with the new tier bonusses, I completely disagree with OP’s post.

1 Like

Perhaps you’re right but RNG is still boring. Would’ve been more interesting if the set bonuses would’ve interacted with our end tier talent choice instead.

Now that would be interesting, but a nightmare to balance. Instead of trying to balance the set bonuses for every dps spec in the game, they would have to balance every possible build (and they already have enough trouble balancing specs).

I like to Imagine that’s what we pay for.

Well, we don’t pay much. Nowhere near even the price of a night out once a month.

Can you tell me those 3 different and “competitive” talent builds? if they add that to the game?.
Every competitive player will be obliged to choose one that gives the most damage that’s how the game works, and how it’s not forced into one build? if you have to spam that spell of course there will be one and only build.

  1. Venth build,
  2. Momentum build
  3. First blood + demonic
3 Likes

Only the last one in that list wants to press BD regularly. Venth build wants to Chaos Strike as much as possible to reduce EB cooldown and momentum doesn’t care about BD outside of the burst window which greatly reduces the potency of the set bonuses.

The current set bonuses they cooked up are simply underwhelming. Even if you run first blood the RNG factor of the 4pc just feels bad. And if you play Venth, the top build for raiding, you don’t even care about the bonuses at all.

4 Likes

And this is the point. They’re trying to give players a reason to press it. They haven’t got it right yet, but they’ll be working on it. (They’ve already made a massive change to the set bonuses for another class/spec I play based on player feedback, so they will be looking into this as well.)

That said, my feeling on blade dance is that it’s a cleave ability and not designed for single target. Momentum doesn’t only press it during the burst window; we press it any time there are more than 2 targets to hit. That it’s historically been best in ST as well seems like a tuning error on the part of the devs. Most classes have a different rotation, and different abilities to use/prioritise in cleave/AOE and ST situations. I’d like to see blade dance become useful on 2 targets, but in pure ST, my feeling is that we should have a ST rotation to use and not default to the same one as we use in cleave/AOE.

There is a detailed post why this set will be useless for us in raid.

yes, at the moment you can play 1) momentum 2) first blood 3) agony gaze builds
BUT
guess how many of them uses blade dance, thats right, only one.
Like OP said, this will force us to play one build and spam one button, wich is true.
yes you can stick to other builds but they will most likely perform worse then first blood.
look top 20 m+ players, majority of them playing firstblood build, wich indicates its strongest RN, and if they gonna buff blade dance, its gonna be meta at least for M+

I agree the tier set bonus is extremely disappointing and unlike the other sets it exclusively favours just one build.

It is just unfortunate that you overexaggerate like what I just quoted. The tier set in first blood is something around 4-6% damage increase so you aren’t really going to be spamming just one button. You’ll largely retain your normal playstyle and can largely disregard the tier set.

In comparison Venthyr with DGB+Agony will, theoretically, be a 15-18% increase and gets 0 use out of the tier set. If the tier set goes live like this we can mock and meme Blizzard forever, but it will also give you “freedom” to gear for different stats.

Hopefully the feedback already given will make Blizzard reconsider the set bonus.

Well, i was talking about m+ and about 2/4 set bonuses, but if we are talking about double legendary in m+ then I understand that venthyr DGB+AG has some synergy, but its not good in M+, few facts

  1. you need BIG pack every 4 minutes to make this work wich rarely happens
  2. in single target its good but you can already manage to have 80% uptime on m+ boss.
  3. dark glare is RNG and 40% aint something you can count on, so even if you have big pack every 4 minutes, in 60% of cases you wont refresh it immidietly and then you hope for another RNG to get resets to extend the sinful brand
    SO
    i highly doubt its 15-18% increase dmg. (again i was talking about m+, maybe you misunderstood and thought im talking about raids or pvp)
    in m+ you will most likely run blazing slaughter with everburn/CA, with frist blood build wich is meta right now

i admit i cant see to the future, maybe there will be momentum back in the game for m+,
but i highly doubt venth RNG build will be meta for m+

Even if it’s good, having to rely on RNG is horrible and makes it hard to set up pulls for your team, especially on certain affixes.

Today Blizzar said this about the Havoc tier set:
“Havoc 4P - We’ve heard your feedback that you would like more information about when your empowered Blade Dance will arrive, as you want to plan around that gameplay. We’re looking to add a means of understanding when your blade dance is empowered in a future build so that you’ll have more information about when your big moment is approaching.”

NO! YOU HAVEN’T HEARD ANY FEEDBACK!
IF YOU HAD LISTED TO ANYONE YOU WOULD HAVE THROWN THAT TIER AWAY! OR AT LEAST YOU WOULD HAVE MADE FIRST BLOOD BASELINE!
Are you really making us believe that the only problem that this tier have is something that can be solved with a WeakAura?

Please stop insulting us!
Please! You are improving almost all the tiers except the one with the most obvious and brutal problems!
Change the tier to empower Eye Beam or Chaos Stricke, but not Blade Dance!