Imagine, if you spend that time doing PVP you would have a max ilvl weapon now, you can upgrade it with honour,
its disgusting, i know
Seriously i agree, there is not enough loot
I wish that was man. Unfortunately mental health isnât that simple.
1 Like
I have read some interesting things so far. With some I agree, with others I disagree. Yet, Iâm not quite sure if I made myself clear before, so I will repeat myself again, since I would like this to be a healthy discussion:
When it comes to gear, the return on investment right now in WoW: Shadowlands is pretty bad in my opinion.
Grinding multiple hours/days for your BIS gear, without it getting devalued in the coming weeks would be absolutely worth it. Thatâs what meaningful loot actually means.
Grinding multiple hours/days for a mere upgrade (NOT BIS) and having it devalued in a few weeks is totally not worth it and is just frustrating.
Blizzard wants us to grind gear in Shadowlands with their meaningful loot approach, and Iâm totally fine with it. I just think itâs completely bad design to replace all of your gear which you tediously grinded when the next season starts.
We do not know if Blizzard will do it like in BFA or if the ilvl increase will be quite low. But in all honesty, I think that doing massive ilvl increases like in BFA combined with the grindy gearing system of Shadowlands will be a complete failure.
By the way @Räbies, you canât upgrade your PVP gear beyond 184 right now, you have to get to Renown level 22 first, which will be mid January.
If you could actually upgrade your PVP gear right now to 200 I wouldnât have made this post in the first place.
1 Like
The initial thought behind this new gearing system is to encourage people to grind less M+, and let the vault dripfeed upgrades for you after youâve gotten âokayâ loot.
However, players nowadays are conditioned to the notion of gear being easily and instantly grindable through hardcore nolifing for a few days in M+ to get completely decked out.
Basically thereâs dissonance between player expectation and the reality of the game here. People know that the gear is available, and so there are those who will defy the unfavorable RNG put in place to discourage grinding, and grind and grind and grind until they can achieve as close to perfection gear-wise as they can at any current time.
And that gear will soon be worthless or nigh-worthless.
I honestly donât have a strong opinion one way or another, part of me is glad that gearing is a bit slower, allowing casuals to catch up a bit faster at least, but the pleasure is definitely lessened for those who want their gear and want it right now.
You made a self-evident argument why having less loot is better, not worse 
Or you could do just a bit of pvp and get 200 ilvl weapons unranked
Just sayingâŚ
1 Like
And what is even worse - it becomes an expectation that you will have like 200 ilvl for M+3. So even those who donât really want to grind - are forced to grind too.
You clearly didnât understand my point. I encourage you to read my posts again. Iâm not against âlessâ loot or loot scarcity, but I want loot to matter and to have LONGEVITY.
Aye⌠Iâm more than happy doing my raid and M+ for the week for the weekly Chest/Vault. I donât grind M+.
Well Blizzard have repeatedly shown a complete lack of interest in player well-being from the very beginning (look at the cases back in Vanilla/TBC of players actually -dying- because of toxic feedback loop systems they had in game).
Entirely agree, the Time Invested vs Reward system which is the cornerstone of any RPG game, or any sort of game that has a progression system is completely screwed over.
Considering the current world situation as you rightfully pointed out itâs only going to put strain on for what a lot of people have is their -only- primary outlet of escapism currently.
But they donât care, they want engagement metrics regardless of however they do them, be it causing damage to their playerbaseâs health they donât care, theyâre a soulless corporate entity controlling the dev team. I 100% assure you this order has come from the analytics team who saw too much loot as a sign of
âWell if they get loot we canât show our masters how many people are grinding Nathira this quarter can we?â
Itâs dark and cynical, much like the Venâthyr draining people of anima, Blizzard do with their playerbaseâs time and money.
2 Likes
Basically this.
Never think a corporation is your friend.
You are a big fat udder to them, that they will milk for money in the most efficient and soulless way possible. Before, that meant creating games that people wanted to play, nowadays it means creating games tailored to prey upon addictive personalities and cheap, fake dopamine hits.
I still have a slim hope for the PvP to better itself though, itâs currently atrociously bad, but thereâs a good foundation at work that might work out in the long run, so Iâm staying for now.
Mate, if you realize that you talk about a corporation included in Top 500 Forbes and you are using words like âaddictive personalitiesâ and âcheap, fake dopamine hitsâ you kind of contradict yourself. Do yourself a favor.
I agree with op. Even pvp gearing is easier now.
I beg to differ. The enjoyment I get from the content Iâm interested in relates to the improvement of my skill, steadily growing better over a period of time as I overcome challenges. If I donât enjoy what I do, I donât feel an urge to continue.
I daresay I do not fall under the category of âaddictive personalityâ, as Iâve previously hopped into an expansion to see if I like the PvP, found it either pleasing and staying, or displeasing and leaving.
As for the aforementioned dopamine hits, I refer to the pointless bells and whistles they give to absolutely mundane features within the game, treating the player like a winner for opening a box, or completing a mission at the mission table. Basically the same thing that you see plastered all over Hearthstone.
Impactful sounds and explosive animations that give you the âcasinoâ feel, and attract those who get a rush from the game showering them in these kinds of effects.
EDIT:
And please pardon if I misunderstood what you were actually targeting with your post, I gambled on you refering to my personal motives here.
1 Like
Good job you figured out you are playing mmo time investment/consuming toppled with grind goes with the turff.
As for the second part,making a group with people who share your interest would speed the gearing by a lot.Your OP comes as if you pug+lone wolfed your gearing process,thats a missery by itself.Loot trading in m+ is not some unknow phenomenom.
Fair enough. As long as you are aware of what is happening, is ok, you can even run Torghast 
1 Like
Gotta jump in and say thank you for being polite and likeable. A growing scarcity in our time.
1 Like
But this âwhy botherâ exists in Shadowlands too. Itâs called Great Vault. Do 4 mythics and you are done for the week, Blizzardâs welfare is better than doing raids and dungeons anyway.
Itâs only beginning of the expansion and I already feel âwhy botherâ when I still wear heroic shoulders and gloves because I saw none of these items since heroic dungeons were opened, thatâs how bad RNG has become. And then I go and calculate that I have like 7% chance to drop these shoulders or gloves in dungeon in which I can get both. 7%! If I farmed this dung 20 times I would still have 23% chance to not see any of these!
And what is even more painful - it would be a waste of time, because before I force-farm that crap I can just get better ones from mythic chest or Great Vault, and then my past effort is literally devalued to zero.
I had live example last reset. I dropped 200 ilvl neck from dungeon last week. Yay? Few days later I got welfare neck 210 (only valuable item I had actually) from GV and that was from M+ actually. Was this 200 ilvl neck meaningful then? No. It went to trash bin anyway because you canât beat welfare right now. It just has higher ilvl than any activity you can do with your own power. Nothing that you worked for matters when it clashes with welfare.
Like I said. WoW has no meaningful drops right now. It has meaningful welfare.
I think youâre misusing âwelfareâ here. Raid finder with epic upgrade is welfare, world quest upgraded is welfare. GV is not welfare. You get rewarded with doing higher end content, and the more you do the more choice you have to select from. Itâs not difference getting an item from GV after doing X amount of dungeons and raids, than getting those items from the raid or content itself. And if youâre not doing any content then youâre not getting any loot.
As for the drop rate, I find it fine and nothing out of the ordinary. Yeah you can go a long time without getting what you want or the upgrade you need. But now youâre rewarded for doing dungeons, the more you do them the higher is the chance you eventually get what you want. But itâs not going to come as easy as it did in Legion and BfA, which were the 2 biggest welfare expansions weâve had.
It is. It has higher ilvl than you can farm yourself and itâs pretty easily accessible. Nowhere near as easy as getting this gear yourself.
The more you have to do them, the more you are going to be disappointed - thatâs the actual reality. On old drop rates so 3 items for timed M+ chances would grow from 7% to about 11% each run. Then after doing this dung 20 times you would have only about 10% chance to not see any of these items you want. But that would still be pretty grindy (I would vomit being forced to do this very same dungeon 20 times in a row so my âmeaningfulâ piece can next day be replaced by exactly the same but +15 ilvl from GV), I would prefer content currency like PVP has for pieces we want to âsnipeâ, and for the rest current drop rates would be fine.
The more you use maths to provide numbers for current system the more you think that doing more than 4 M+ has pretty high chance of being disappointed with results, and if you only logged for 1 day a week to actually do these M+ itâs better to just unsub. Blizzard created system that âfeelsâ just really bad and unjust, this is not going to end well.
RNG is good until itâs not overdosed. WoW now overdosed RNG in PVE gearing system.