Well, at BfA launch I got rejected for the lowest possible keys. We went from a complete joke, to a more subtle joke. There is some progress going on there.
Id like San’Layn Shaman though <3 Or Blood Elf Shaman fine too. For once can I atleast look pretty in my mogs, I could then atleast stand in a raid and look pretty. Now Im just ugly and horrible at the same time. The pain is real omg.
What about our Mastery ? Am I the only one thinking it’s “not so good” and pretty boring ? I hope we will have some nice class changes for the next expansion and may be a new mastery for Rsham can bring new playstyles. What do you thing about it ? An idea to improve it ?
Yeah, not like shaman is the ONLY healer with interrupt, on 12 sec cd aswell!, short cd AoE stun, Short cd AoE slow, Speed totems ect
No, druid has fookin battleres, that means they have more utillities
Not saying shammy is good, but they outclass everyclass utillitywise ( as healer )
Have to say, I did start a resto druid as well, firstly because I was dead tired of pugging things and getting rejected a LOT…secondly just to see what they were all about.
Not saying they’re not fun, since I’m having a blast playing the druid. Every class just has cons and pros. But I expected more as to why they want a resto druid no matter what on high keys. We can deal with enrage, root, CR, and ofc we can put on certain heals whilst walking.
Shamans have more utilities if you ask me. But our CR totem, is it that bad compared to a normal CR?
The only thing I hate with resto shamans in raids, is that usually when I try to heal up group wide dmg, other healers are have already topped people super fast, something my buffed CH & CbT can’t.
Grovi, all this simply shows how important a CR is. There’s a very good reason you do not see Shamans at the top healers in M+ while it’s riddled with Druids.
I am well aware of my short cd ranged interrupt, but it simply isn’t enough. Also it’s not the only thing Druids bring over Shamans, for example their ability to deal damage ( as mentioned before ) is far superior to Shaman’s.
I want to see the strengths of Resto shamans, and I see most of them, aswell.
It is however not enough in Dungeons compared to Druids ( and most healers ), or in Raids compared to Paladins / Priests. I stick with my previous statement where I said Shamans are being handicapped by the way our kit is supposed to work. It feels outdated, it has long cast times ( and any remarkable heal has a cast time ), and when we want to AoE heal, the entire raid must be stacked in order to reach reasonable numbers, still being outhealed by both Paladins and Priests under the best of circumstances.
That’s not okay, we might be doing -better- since the buffs in the previous patch, but the actual problems still persist and it’s nowhere near enough.
They are nerfing Holy Pala’s in raids. I’m incredibly annoyed at how long it took for them to see and address this, which should’ve been a hotfix well within a month. Instead they broke raids completely by letting blatantly overpowered classes do their thing for the entire expansion. I will once again support my statements with proof, and you really can’t get around this one:
www .warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/23#metric=hps&class=Healers&boss=0
^ Here you will see Holy Paladins, and not a few of them. Literally EVERYwhere, page after page after page. click on any boss here, look at the top 2000. See the completely stupid ratio of Hpally vs any other healer, then realize they ALSO add 10k + DPS AND have a flat damage reduction which isn’t added in the painfully overpowered HPS already.
I cannot fathom Blizzards inaction towards this. They’re literally choosing inaction for an entire year before toning it down. That said, let’s go to the M+ page:
raider .io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-bfa-3/world/all/healer#content
Just tell me what you see, and explain to me how we have apparently more utility than Druids in dungeons :).
I am very well aware of what Shamans can and cannot do, but even if I didn’t, this is WRONG in EVERY way possible. Not a SINGLE class or spec should EVER be this overpowered in whatever content they’re doing, but even when it occassionaly happens after a huge mistake from Blizzard, I expect them to fix it in a reasonable amount of time. They did NOT fix Hpallies in a reasonable amount of time. Even better, they STILL didn’t fix it, but they’re going to make some adjustments in the next patch ( which may or may not be enough ). I have yet to hear something about druids in Dungeons, but I know better than to wait for that.
Blizzard has lost every bit of trust I had in them concerning balance. They simply don’t care and for that reason I’ve stopped playing the game competitively other than raiding, which I still enjoy because of my guild and friends. I just can’t deal with the continuous, numerous and especially the magnitude of mistakes being made by the balance team, which in turn forces me to stop playing competitively lest I drive myself mad from the unfair advantages other players get for free.
What I said before is still a thing, I enjoy my Shaman, but it’s literally masochistic to play one at this point in time ( and quite frankly, it has been for the past few expansions ). I enjoy a challenge, but the game’s content provides that challenge, and it should in no way be included into what class you play.
Ofcourse I know not EVERYthing can be balanced, nor would I want everythign to be straightened flat like that. Absolutely not, I enjoy the diversity, I enjoy seeing one dps shine on some fights and other dps shine at others. This is literally not a thing for Shammies, even on the most optimal fight we’re NOT good enough, we shine absolutely nowhere and we’re literally not getting the much required aid.
Either way ! I don’t like to make a post in such a complaining way, but most of the points I make are simply facts right now, with the other ones being my personal feelings towards said facts.
I’d like to thank everyone for reading the post and keeping it alive 
I remain your lovely ( yet slightly grrr ) Nyms <3
I do see there’s some youtube vids of this resto shaman doing 20+ keys 
Appreciate you coming with such a mature response
Now im just going for the +15 achievment in time on all dungeons, but i wouldn’t say shammy’s utillities would be its problems, its more its healing
Even when everyone is all togheter hugging your healing is still incredibly weak, the only time its strong is if everyone needs healing at the same time, not saying that is a rare situation, im just saying if the class can’t tank heal, then it isn’t that good in M+
Specially when 90% is warriors that rely heavily on healing Dx
The only dungeon where shammy would be my go-to is if im doing shrine and we got dps with long cd cooldowns, that 12 sec cd cooldown is a blessing!
Thank you Grovi
I usually don’t do Mythic+ with a Warrior tank, with one of the reasons being that my friend plays a Blood DK or BM Monk, and the other reason being Warriors having the least self healing in the game as a tank. Shamans had a buff on their single target healing, which was very necessary, but even with the changes Shamans are the worst spot / tank healers in the game, I’ve always thought Warrior tank and Shaman healers simply don’t work too well for that reason. Yet, if I simply look at my own experiences, the problem isn’t really the healing in M+.
I can make an entire list of the minor things wrong, and perhaps I can point out a few quickly.
In raids, Spirit Link and Healing Tide totem are powerful and effective, but, Spirit Link doesn’t do that much in M+ due to the azerite traits not being strong enough for M+ usage. This means Spirit Link does not heal, thus only equalizes health. This is a problem for Shammies in particular because especially in dungeons, we’re focussing on single target hps ( which as pointed out before, is lower than other healers even when talented ).
Healing Tide totem, unlike the Druid’s Tranquility, does NOT get a higher HPS output when used in a 5 man group, which in turn makes it extremely low over time healing for a 3 minute cd.
I ofcourse still use these cooldowns frequently in dungeons, but it should be known that while they are strong raid cooldowns, in dungeons they are more than lacking and very far behind other healer’s CD’s. Combine that with the low single target healing ( I usually feel forced to bring Earth Shield with Jellyweed trinket and 3x Turn of the tides traits for most effective Tank healing ) and you will find yourself healing or putting healing rains / Totems or other preparations down all the time in order to not fall behind. This is important to note, because it factors into why Shammies can’t DPS so well in dungeon environments.
I personally don’t have issues healing M+, even when doing +17’s they are more than reasonable, provided the pulls are done correctly and mechanics aren’t failed. As a matter of fact, I would even go as far as saying Shamans have decent burst healing provided you crit your Healing Surge. ( which, even with my idle 37% crit chance is still more likely to happen than I want to admit ).
There’s a lot more as to why Druids are this popular and Shamans are this unpopular in M+. As I’ve said before, all a Druid needs to do in order to out dps a Resto Shaman in dungeons is to use sunfire once in a while, that’s all there is to it. But it doesn’t end there, Druids have a great amount of damaging abilities woven into their kit which makes it extremely easy for them to add 20k dps in total at the end of a dungeon, even at the highest keys. Shamans literally can’t, there’s simply no way, we have no AoE damaging spell other than Chain lightning which is only 3 targets and still doesn’t do a lot of damage. We simply do not have the spells to be relevant in dps, let alone doing all that while healing.
Just to come back at your previous point saying Shamans have a lot of utility; In M+, all that matters is that you add dps so you can do the dungeon faster and hopefully in time. I don’t claim to know every last detail as to why Shamans are not as popular compared to Druids ( or most healers ), but the facts are simply there. The point of creating the post in the first place was to figure out and discuss the actual reason we’re so weak. I’ve just pointed out some things I see happen myself
Also it seems I am unable to create short replies and feel the need to put in walls of text to make my point clear and substantiate my claims 
Once again your lovely and less-grr-than-yesterday Nyms \o/
Honestly i hate it when people do that, im not here to read an essay but you are so mature & polite that i feel bad if i dont x)
Depends on your team, when i play shammy my warrior tank friend put on dps traits so they take more damage, but will deal alot more to compensate for my dps loss ( Mostly on teeming & fortified )
Still, shamans utillities, like just the interrupt alone makes shrine 10 times easier on pugs, but thats more of a playerbase issue that nobody bothers to interrupt on pugs
Great video Precisely the feedback we needed. You clearly notice the low DPS output from the Shaman here. The low sustain single target hps, not getting higher than 40k effective single target output while the tank itself is compensating for most of the damage.
I haven’t been diving in the actual numbers, but it’s blatantly clear that the Monk healed atleast twice as much on himself than the shaman did on him. He didn’t die, so it’s not necessarily bad, but with the average dps of the shammy being 7k throughout the dungeon, it’s clear to me that the team is handicapping themselves having a Shaman in the group rather than a Druid. Please notice they also lack a Combat Ress in the first place. Just because this one RShammy has a team that does NOT distantiate themselves from their healer, which -still- happens to this date, doesn’t mean everything is fine :).
If you do not understand what’s happening here, I can explain it some more;
The video you have provided us with, is made possible due to an extremely well organized group of players that play their classes to their extent. they managed to do a +22 AD key in time (although barely) which says enough about their efficiency in mob pulling and organized damage cooldowns, etc.
However, this is Koozie we’re talking about, the current #2 Resto Shaman in the world in M+ dungeons, please also note that the TOP 20 Resto Shamans average around 2.6k RIO, while the TOP 20 Resto Druids average 3.5k, nearly an entire thousand points higher.
Even the highest ranked Shaman out there is 600 points lower than the highest ranked Druid, and Koozie here sitting at over 3k points is just at rank 75 world.
I’d like to add that the healing in this dungeon was barely tested at all. A spirit link here and there, but often the hps is not exceeding 60k hps. That is very easily done for any healer out there while dishing out more dps than Koozie did here; the players barely got hit by anything avoidable, they interrupted everything correctly, dealt with literally everything the way you would expect from a team that takes down a +22 in time. I don’t want to discredit Koozie, he is obviously a ridiculously talented player; this is simply aimed at the class itself.
What more evidence do we need to figure out how weak Resto Shamans currently are? It’s literally in front of us when you but glance at it.
Thank you for reading,
Your Wooshy Nyms
P.S.
While I understand that people don’t like to write a wall of text like I seem to do every time ( can’t help it… save me! ), I would still like to try to convince people to reply with a few words to describe their intentions.
I usually tend to look at things from a positive angel, so my intention was to show that a resto shaman can actually finish a high key in time. Obviously, he’s not alone, so he needs a group to try their best as well.
I already know about resto druids, and the fact that they’re “better”. When I saw this vid, I was more like, I want to try and get to this level as well. I’m far from there for sure, I rely to much on pugs, but it’s surely good to see this. Of coure you can look at the video, and take everything negative, not doing that myself, my aim with watching it, and rewatching is, is to see how this is done.
I also got a druid, and have to say, I miss that 12 sec interrupt a lot as well, and AoE stun etc…not saying you’re completely wrong or something, but no need to be 100% negative either, at east we’re able to finish high keys.
Thank you, Dikru That makes a lot of sense!
Reading my previous reply, I realize that it could indeed come over a bit as negative. I apologize for this, I never meant for it to be displayed like that. I was merely trying to inform that even the best Resto Shamans out there are -still- getting outperformed by a very large amount of Druids, even Koozie, who has a determined team revolved around him.
Also, I hope you realize that this post was created in July, over 3 months ago, and absolutely nothing has changed in the top of M+ or Raid environments. It’s still riddled with Druids in M+, or Paladins in Raids. That can cause friction from the players not playing those 2 classes, as they had no chance knowing Blizzard was going to favor one of them so much above the others.
It’s unfair, it’s ridiculous and the difference is -way- too big. Had the ratios not been 80% druids in top 1000 M+ healers, or about the same %age for Hpallies in Raids, but a more acceptable ( yet still biased ) ~50%, things would’ve been a lot more realistic and I wouldn’t have been here informing / discussing the inability of Rshamans in those environments.
There simply are not enough Rshamans compared to other healers in M+. That alone is cause for alert. Delving deeper into the root of the problem and we arrive at what I have mentioned earlier, Shamans simply lack a lot of things; from low DPS output to high healing uptime / long casts for low healing / lowest single target HPS throughput / bad healing cd’s / no Battle Res, ETC.
I’m sorry if this sounds negative, but I believe I put a lot of time and effort into putting everything in words and explaining / giving facts as to why Rshamans are less popular than Druids in M+ or Paladins in Raids. I can see your point of view in to why it would be a good idea to not look negatively at the Shamans’ performance. But this post is simply not about negativity or positivity. I’d like to mention once again that I absolutely love my Shaman and I wouldn’t wanna give her up for any other healer, but hopefully that doesn’t mean I am therefore not allowed to “complain” when we’re quite literally being bullied by the playerbase and Blizzard because we’re playing Shamans.
Keep in mind that multiple M+ groups have distantiated themselves from their Shaman healer. This has occured a lot of times and it’s still happening. They are literally putting us aside because we’re not puling the numbers or granting the utility the team requires.
If you’d ask me what I think is necessary for a Shaman to be competitive in M+ as a healer, I’d start off by saying that Battle Ress is simply too powerful a tool to be given to a single Healer only. Then I’d continue with saying that Chain Lightning is not hitting enough targets to be even close to reasonable AoE damage, our Single Target DPS is fine, but it would be nice to see SOME form of interaction with our Healing abilities and Damage abilities like literally every other healer has right now. For example, certain heals refresh the duration of Flame Shock because of some “Steam” mechanic added to our kit, which I could see making far more sense than most other stuff in the game, “lore-wise”. And last but not least, I would love to see Shamans be more mobile all around. With every other healer having a speed boost and us being stuck with a meager +30% ghost wolf ( which doesn’t even allow us to cast anything while in it, they even nerfed unleash elements so it removes Ghost Wolf), I would love to see some changes to for example; Healing Wave being able to cast on the move, or giving Shamans back their Gust of Wind would surely not be too much luxury, either.
I am going out of my own way now, however. I should probably stick with what the problems are rather than trying to put ideas on paper. I believe Blizzard even said that they didn’t like that, but at the very least these ideas should provide some information as to what’s wrong with the Resto Shamans’ kit at the moment.
Your lovely Nyms <3
I actually agree with you here on the points you describe, the only thing I have to add when I play my druid is…that I do miss my shaman utilities…I don’t have interrupts, no mass stun, slow down totem…stuff like that.
But yeah, as resto shaman, I do try to focus on my healing traits, I don’t use IP yet, since I’d only pick that on a set piece where the other option plainly s*cks .
Did a pug last night, with a tank that just rushing into things, stacks weren’t his concern. I went in with CbT, but I think I should have picked FF. Why on e.g. Icy Veins there’s a big red X through FF, I don’t get, since it’s an amazing talent.
We missed the timer by a mere few seconds. Still, that seems to be a weekly thing, I am really trying hard to get some high keys done in time, I just keep up ending up in groups that can’t. And sure I make my mistakes, but rly not alone there. If a tank starts pulling when my mana is at 10%, or while I’m drinking, that’s on him.
Guess I’m sort of giving up on high keys now. I do enjoy the druid too, but it doesn’t feel like my favorite spec. I did enjoy it more in raids though, since shaman heals are too slow in raids, I feel so useles there
Finally got Keystone master (the normal one), did a WM +15 in time yesterday. Still relying on pugs, and since there’s no communication (which I believe is key in high keys), that felt like a lucky shot
Grats! Got a 15 WM timed myself last night, felt good 
Congratz as well, not sure I would have tried that dungeons this week, like Tol Dagor. I wish I had like a permanent grou to do these things with, but alas…pugs!
I luckily dont have to pug, but my regular group seems to be stuck at +11-13 depending on week. But i run some with ppl from a community on the side. I prefer to run with ppl that are used to shammies and our toolkits, if not they just run out of my totems and stuff 
Good to hear, last night sadly been trying for over an hour to get into a group. Then once I did, my internet came down, and was down all night .
I’m going to try to look for a regular group myself, it’s just not pug to do that with pugs and in my guild, I only see that our officers group up. It’s like a thing I noticed in guilds I’m in, they want people to gear up for raids, but…they want to officers to gear up more, stay ahead of the rest or something. Dunno, I do 1-2 raid runs with the guild per week, and the rest of the week I don’t see them, sometimes I wonder why I am in a guild. M+ is what I like to do most, so now I’m working on a shadow priest.
Was actually getting essences on a resto druid, but now I stopped, am almost there, but…I just prefer my shaman, it’s that simple.
Maybe I’m also just getting to a point where I had enough of the expansion, every time that happens.
Anyways, end of rant post hahaha, I’ll keep on trying.
Try joining a community? Calm keystones and zen horde might be options for u? Community has replaced guilds for me. I’m in a dead guild only for the perks. U can raid with guild and do m+ with community ppl.
Yeah, been gearing my druid myself, but i just prefer shaman, cant really get used to the healing style of druids.