So, here they are → https://www.wowhead.com/news/paladin-talent-trees-now-available-in-dragonflight-calculator-328003
I mostly play as Protection and I see legendary powers from SL which I’m happy for.
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Long arm of the law returned
Exorcism returned
To ret, they finally did it
Sigh, no real gapcloser. Still wont be able to move outside freedom. Fairly sure movement buffs wont stack, so freedom 30% + Long arm 20% still 30%? add steed still just 100%
Exo… sure but doesnt give holy power.
Its as i feared, talents were the ranks we have now in our already lackluster skill book. 4 points into steed to get a lesser version of what we have now.
Spellwarding is the one + i see here, the rest is just reshuffeling on our rotation.
Ppl asked for Rets to move backwards and we did, congrats!
Edit: Oh blinding light and fist of justice is good. Finaly back to 2 decent CDs with one on short CD…Rogues still teleporting between 5 ppl cheapshotting them all?
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Interrupt for holy paladin and a 1 min Sacrifice cd is nice.
Terrible, just horrible.
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Ret and prot look good besides…
-Exorcism not giving a hopo
-No Aura mastery for the class
Seems Holy is losing Divine Toll, I am kind of sad to see this go. It was such a fun ability to use.
I’m fairly sure we won’t get Ashen Hallow. That ability has defined Holy’s viability even though Paladin was kind of middle of the pack as a healer at the start of the expansion. And also weirdly enough caused Blizzard to nerf Paladin’s base kit even though the issue was with AH alone.
Night Fae is too convoluted for a healer to depend on I feel. So my guess is we’ll get Vanquisher’s Hammer, which in my opinion is kind of boring. Also kind of on the weaker side without the upgrades through the current tier set.
I would be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed. But I’ll try to stay reasonably optimistic.
Aura Mastery was exclusive to Holy in SL, so my guess is that is now the status quo…
That’s bad, ret does not bring relevant and consistent raid utility, more esp compared with other plate classes. Why is ret stuck with cheezing spells?
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My guess is that they thought it would make Prot too powerful so they made it a Holy ability and forgot Ret existed in the process?
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Then the point still stands, both bdk and prot warrior bring a raid wide CD so there should be no reason for prot not to bring that
Another concern is that there is still a huge lack of dmg mitigation abilities for ret. Still just have the same tools we have today, so easy to force bubble and then basically left with nothing. Our offhealing in pvp will still be half of what it is in pve, no its even nerfed by 60%.
Edit: Our 1 targeted slow far down the tree still on 30 sec CD, conc aoe slow…damn there are sooo many abilities for conc all over the tree.
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Still no group/raid utility for Ret, no M+ utility, while everyone else is keeping theirs and getting more.
I hope it is just some early alpha version, or this is going to be another 3 years of bench/decline hell simulator.
Total of 10 talents to buff consecration to its max potential from what i can see.
Mad paragon is nerfed to 0.5 sec from 1 and 10% dmg from 30%
Might be becaue we can have Vanguards momentum at the same time that is the same as on live.
Seal of the Templar atleast makes steed not a total waste even when slowed/rooted, this might help a bit. But still 4 points + this to make it better then what we have today?
Lets look at shaman. Mail is just 1 class under plate, Rets dont have sheilds, so on armor class they can be on par. The very first talent on the basic tree they can choose is an 40% dmg reduction for 8 sec 2 min CD. They can buff it on the very next row to increase the reduction to 60% or reduce CD AND increase duration. Ghost wolf is their “cleanse” now on slows.
Again plate means nothing as nearly no classs are pure physical dmg. It helps 0% against any caster.
Edit: Then lets also look at warriors… leaping across the map like its nothing with their hurdur plate. DKs? They are Jojoing other players across the map…sometimes even while they are on mounts!!!
But nah, paladins can never be mobile, nor ever slow and controll others!
Edit 2: noticed now that steed is 1 min CD instead of 45!! brilliant!! 
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For prot paladin I don’t see anything that allows your consecration to move with you, I don’t know how our active mitigation is changing but if its once again completely dependant on standing in consecration I feel kind of forced to go after all consecration talents cause I know that one has 100% uptime
A lot of the talents feel extremely redundant, there’s 4ish consecration based talents and about 3 of those reduce damage taken in some way and about 4~ish AS based talents, they put a lot of our active abilities in the talent tree but the utility is all in the class tree it seems like.
Some of the paths to follow also feel a bit bad, often I have to click uninteresting talents I otherwise would not click to reach interesting ones,
Divine steed nerfed to a minute cooldown, 4 talent points needed(!!!) to get a weaker version then what we have right now.
You have to spend 1 point in it to even be able to grab avenging wrath. Imo Avenging wrath should be a few rows down (last of the 8 points required) further down and all 3 (left center right) paths should have a path leading to it, it’s just that core of an ability.
I am seeing some positive returns.
Exocism and long arm of the law returning seem pretty good, but yeah theres defintly some problems among this.
Sustain options, a lack of raid utility are 2 shining out. But i wouldnt say its all bad
Ret looks realy interesting, few possible good builds i can actualy see. But it all depends on trinkets/set bonus etc what will be best. Would love to get alpha acces to try round theese builds on target dummy with my current gear, to see how it is in action and not theory in my head.
I guess people are not addressing the elephant in the room - Avenger shield not generating holy power.
So their design intent is to add multiple small talents that buff Avenger shield but making it give no holy power will make it so its pressed less often, due to the fact you might struggle to keep mitigation early season - so all those talents lose value.
Also in mythic+ you are bound to play Bulwark of order and Soaring shield which require you to press AS everytime its ready. And in a perfect world at least for some builds, you are not even taking the other talents that buff Avenger shield.
An ideal option would be to let it generate holy power, let be as it is now, and just maybe tune the other talents in line with this. I know we have other talents and combinations we can take at the moment for example a Avenging Wrath build makes it fun, my main concern is that the gameplay can be at genius level with all these build options if AS generates holy power and if its left like this it will not be pressed in Mythic+ immediately in some situations to gain an absorb shield just because you have to keep mitigation up with only 2 generators ( even tho you can play Crusaders Judgement) and when having to also use the ocasional Word of Glory and with lower haste levels, we might struggle.
Again, you decided to remove the HP from Avenger shield and added a lot of talents that add effects to it, but in the real world, tanks that do other builds and dont spec into those options, will only suffer that their Avenger shield is weaker.
I dont really play prot but have to agree, when a non spending attack does not generate holy power it feels really bad to use. Is it supposed to be a filler between generators and spenders but at the same time isnt it core to the specc?
20% movementspeed is not long arm of the law returned.
This ability used to be 45% movement speed for 3 or 4seconds.
this version is a talent point for 20% movement for 2seconds.
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