The Forsaken figurehead SPOILER

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392758838891380736/725819055562424330/830b8c519f239b114767f6214646337c.png

Sorry for the thread spam.

The image above represents the factions leading characters after Sylvanas abducts several of the key figures across both factions.

Calia, given her position and overall treatment by those surrounding her (like Tyrande), seems to be treated as the Forsaken representative. Lillian Voss isn’t around.

I…dislike it.

Opinions?

Ps: A side note, Valeera stands with the Horde as well.

That is very strange. Because I also see that there are leaders of all Alliance/Horde races. Orcs, Humans and Taurens are missing, because they are captured by Sylvanas.

For forsaken we have Calia. But Valeera?
Maybe she represents Goblins, because their new leader also is missing (but probably its because Blizzard need to paint him exclusive goblins model). I think Valeera is a placeholder for now.

Apparently Calia will be horde regardless if we like her or not.

“Protect the living”. Bleh.

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It was kinda weird having Tyrande yell at her with a “You people…!”.

I mean, Calia hasn’t interacted with the Forsaken faction not even once. She was never involved in their affairs, and never showed up at their lows or highs.
And now, she is being treated as she had been part of them all along.

What kind of stuff are they drinking at Blizzard to make them be so blind to even the most obvious bits of lore they wrote themselves?

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  1. Alpha. All of this reeks of stuff that will be tweaked a lot before going live. Calia being a “neutral” NPC to Alliance, while Thalyssra is “friendly” for example doesn’t make sense no matter what they are trying to go for here.
  2. Nothing there makes me think the people there are there as representatives of their races. Many races aren’t even represented.
  3. Tyrande making no distinctions between undead says more about how Blizz wants us to see Tyrande, than it does about how they see Calia.
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Probably d&d stared writing for blizzard and they’re doing a GoT on them.

The characters there are called by Bolvar as representatives of the factions.
The ones whose leaders are missing seem to be those that either (a) were abducted by Sylvanas, or (b) aren’t yet cemented as proper leading figures with a solid say on the factions affairs.

Nobody corrected her tho.
And given the overall tone for said gathering, Calias presence amongst Horde leaders, signals quite the message. Specially given the absence of any other notable Forsaken character.

What exactly does it say? I can’t seem to find it. As I understood it, the Scourge (or at last “Sylvanas’ minions”) kidnapped a few greater leaders, and Bolver called everyone to explain what happened.

Neither abduction of their leaders nor unimportance of the race would be an excuse to exclude the racial factions from anything approaching an official summit. These groups may be meant represent Alliance and Horde, but they certainly aren’t meant to represent all their races.

Because it doesn’t matter at all. You don’t argue with crazy, when you have nothing to gain.

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what?
… why?

the En-goodening of the Horde continues apace

Sylvanas seems to control the scourge now, and sent them, or other minions, out to abduct leaders. Anduin, Baine, Thrall and Jaina are the ones you find in the Maw in the following quests.

Strange to have Calia there when Lillian Voss has kind of been acting as representative for the Forsaken for a bit, whether officially or not. I’m not sure Calia really has enough Forsaken-related development yet to become their faction leader (if at all?) Maybe some more info will come to light to bridge the gap between now and this event. We really need more clarity on the direction of Forsaken as a whole, especially following Sylvanas abandoning them.

Also, a bit off topic, I think Valeera should be swapped out for an actual Horde figure. I know there aren’t many left at this point, but what about Mayla, Talanji, or Geya’rah? Horde-side needs a bit more diversity there. Lor’themar in the position he’s in seems fair given he’s served the longest out of any of them there aside from Thrall, but would be good to see another representative from other Horde races. Most of ‘em need that development if they’re the next generation of Horde leaders. Again, need some clarity on certain faction leaders and how they are coming into power.

Though, it’s alpha and early days so hopefully things will begin to become a bit clearer.

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As far as the streaming went, it was a standard calling about summoning “Azeroths” champions.

I concede that it wasn’t an explicit calling for racial representation, but the overall message remained that of summoning those that spoke for the people from both factions. The usual stuff.

And if Blizzard positions Calia amongst Horde figures, and haves her be addressed as the figurehead to receive Forsaken-related complaints, it speaks volumes.
It would’ve not been hard for them to put Voss in her place.

don’t worry, at least you offer interesting topics instead of whining about the color of the enemy faction leader’s underwear in 20 threads.

On topic:
Yeah calia is pretty boring IMO. I don’t like voss either tho. I’d prefer another putress or something.

As for valeera:
Nothing special really. As our dear grand Marshall Garithos always said:
NEVER
TRUST
AN
ELF

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Okay, if it’s like usual… players blowing things totally out of proportion and assuming things Blizzard never intended seems probable. :wink:

Not to me, I fear.

Acknowledging that Blizzard must have had some reason to put Calia in a place that would naturally correspond to the person destined to highlight the Forsaken stance on these matters, isn’t blowing anything out of proportion.
Nor is worrying about why they did so.

I’ll repeat, if Blizzard wanted to throw a Horde/Alliance meeting around some new Neutral Figure that leads the expansion content, for the Horde side of it, there were other easy picks to throw the guy for the Forsaken people.

Assuming putting Calia there is something inocuos/circunstancial, seems rather disingenuous.

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No, but you are assuming that she is there as the figurehead - or even representative - of the Forsaken, when no one, not even Tyrande, says that seems to me to be exactly that. You are understandably nervous about Blizzard making Calia Forsaken leader, and are sensitive to anything that might hint in that direction, I get it. But that invites confirmation bias, and I’m just pointing that out.

Yes. And they didn’t do so… Why not? That they wanted to establish Calia as a Forsaken leader is one possibility, sure. But they also might just have chosen the characters that will have a role in the foreseeable future, instead of factions, and Calia certainly has a story to tell, no matter where it ends. Or they might not have planned it to be just a faction thing at all, considering they put someone like Valeera in. Or the prepatch might actually explain why these characters are there, and not others. Remember, this is the Shadowlands intro, not the prepatch questline, so there is still story to come.

The question WHY these people are there is a valid one. Thinking you already know the answer, and focussing the discussion solely on the faction identity, when there could be alternative explanations out there - possibly more practical than lore-related ones - is jumping ahead.

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I think she’s just neutral. As is Valeera (she is only loyal to Anduin in particular, as has been stated she is his personal spy and friend).

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Calia? Meh. She doesn’t deserve of being the leader of the Forsaken. She did nothing for them. We have Lilian and Velonara, or any other Forsaken, instead of this light-stuffed doll.

It’s strange that Valeera also arrived there. Perhaps she`s carry out the assignment of Anduin and watching the leaders of the Horde. After all, she never considered herself part of the Horde.

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Given the latest reveal for the novel, there are a series of flags beyond actual imagery that point at Blizzard considering Calia part of the Forsaken cast. And having her being the lone representative for the undead at said gathering before Bolvar, further reinforces said idea.

In the new novel excerpt, she is thrown as Forsaken representative with Lillian. And is seated in the council room with the rest.

If we take this, and now add her lone presence as part of the Hordes entourage…

Edit: That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you that I’m personally more jumpy regarding these sort of things. Mainly because I do feel my worries seem well founded.

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Time to delete all my forsaken characters then. I won’t take part in this forced new leader crap.

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