What are you talking about? I love Orgrimmar. It’s much better than that LEGO® looking crap you call Stormwind.
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The horde doesn’t owe you anything. Get your head out of your behind will ya. Jeez alliance players are so arrogant and full of thesmelves it is unfitting.
After thinking about that topic for a while, I think there might be some reasoning for such events.
Originally I entertained the idea of undead night elves. Like, if Calia would end up in the alliance as an example of “not all undead are evil maniacs”, some could make a choice to help the living even if they die. Or, if the original undead night elves would think that Elune betrayed them and would not want to go back, some newer ones could act as “infiltrators” to spy in the horde.
After all, with loyalist quests it seemed that it could be a possible scenario when most of the horde is acting, say, against the alliance, but selected few actually have an option to make it so that not all supplies arrive at the front line, some information might “magically” become available to the opponent, etc.
However, it might not be the only way to get new undead elves that would have s justification not to be a part of the alliance. Since there are very peculiar places: Bashal’Aran and Ameth’Aran. Especially second one which used to be filled with the elf ghosts, hostile to everyone.
However, there are some questions to which I have no answer:
- what would be the opinion of night elves about the fallen brethren? If they would ask to let them be in Ashenvale, is there any indication that night elves could as the last farewell make such a gift?
- could the elves ghosts of Ameth’Aran possess the bodies of deceased night elves?
Second plot point would make both sides right and wrong at the same time.
- night elves would be right because using the corpses like that is not a good idea;
- conscious ghosts could be right because that might be their only “second” chance to do anything other than attack anything that moves nearby;
- night elves would be somewhat wrong because denying others a chance to fix something they did wrong is a questionable thing to do
- such undead would be wrong, because for the living to encounter a body of someone dear possessed by who knows what is a horror-story material.
So, yeah. There could be interesting stories that might not go against the lore of the game. But the outcome that require the least amount of effort is the most likely one.
gl hf
How about that river that the Sentinel army tried to stop the Horde forces at, before they froze the river?
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I am not quite sure what you are generally refering to within this thread since there are no ingame implications that anything like that even is remotely being thought on. Also not sure what that has to do with Ashenvale.
But to answer your questions quoted above:
Nightelves see undead as complete abominations which occour due to them failing to follow the path of Cenarius and Elune and thus being prevented from being rebirthed.
(That is why the outcry of NE players in 8.1 regarding the complete stupidity of Sira, Delaryn and other NEs being risen, happened. It doesn’t suite the lore.)
This is being addressed in Shadows rising actually where Sira after being captured explains Maiev and Tyrande in the stockages that she actually DID NOT chose to be risen like it was implicated in 8.1 before.
So Blizzard seems to retcon the retcon of 8.1 again. Delaryn and Sira aswell as the rest of the NEs were in fact forcefully risen and didn’t chose to.
This is ackknowledged by Maiev and Shandris in the Novel who both plea to Tyrande to not kill Sira, who then doen’t.
So it is safe to say that the relationship of NE towards undead NE will be complicated, but given that they were not willingly risen I can see them being somehow accepted back and pitied into NE society.
(In my opinion this story arc will lead to a Dark Ranger classs for the Alliance)
Regarding the NE ghosts in Bashal Aran and so, these are actually Highborn ghosts. (So actually more connected towards Bloodelves) these have never adopted the Kaldorei livestyle and druidism which is why they became ghosts in the first place, they never became whisps or were able to get reborn.
Since we haven’t had a single quest or incident that Highborn ghosts were able to posess a NE in Darkshore or somewhere else (and NEs have allways settled there), I doubt they could. But Blizzard , as shown in 8.1 seem to allways retcon things in their favour.
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It’s more of a “what if” kind of thinking. Like, what could be the reason for night elves to ever give up on Ashenvale. And the only answer that I could think of “maybe some night elves could accept giving it… to other night elves”. Where do we get other night elves? Well, there are some that are undead. The rest is just a pure daydreaming.
And thanks for the answer.
gl hf
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Its a very good question, because Shandris Feathermoon is also taking actions in Darkshores Warfront. But later she was fighting against Azshara in 8.2. And later she was at Orgrimmar in 8.3. While Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev and the Army of the Black Moon were missing in a story.
So, its unclear why Delaryn left Darkshores and moved away, while others did not.
In pre-patch after cinematic where Teldrassil was burned down, and Delaryn died, Sylvanas gives orders. She order Saurfang to gather all the forces and move to begin build up defenses of the Lordaeron. She gave that order before even Alliance decided to attack on Lordaeron.
And the very same place where she gave that order became main Horde Base on the Darkshores, before Warfront.
So, I guess Horde forces moved away to the Lordareon leaving some troops to defend Darkshores only. They just could not have so many forces to also move back and control Ashenvale.
Actually in the book, there was a moment where Shandris Feathermoon order to Night Elves fleet, to move back into the sea.
After that Night Elves fleet was never mentioned again. So, its pretty logical that we attack from the sea, using that fleet, if that fleet was standing in static somewhere at Exodar.
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He is on MMO-Champion too, his name is Grazrug, but he often gets banned by mods.
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In that case and given all the other evidences that were mentioned, I am pretty sure it is givven that Ashenvale is, like Darkshore bacl in NE hands. Which would also explain why Devs didn’t mention it specificly, as it would be obvious in that case.
If the only fortification of the conquered lands is being reconquered it would of course also be the case of allthe other not fortified occupations.
But yet again, Blizzard is not known for their logic and even consitency. Hence we even have within the WoT quests completely opposit questlines that don’t even match togather telling two different stories.
So for now, I would say that every NE action involving Shandris might be just a gameplay implication. (Like the NEs in Nazmir incursions) but have no real lore implication.
Things like this happen a lot in BFA, for example canonly only the Horde attacked Ghuun. Or how that maggot thing was called.
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With all the new resources from Ashenvale we could finally build a proper capital city that doesn’t look like its falling apart. I hope the Horde can keep Ashenvale to make that wish true. For the Horde!
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I think that any territory should be kept for as long as logic and ingame plausability backs it up.
I see no reason as to why should the Horde (or any faction for that matter), give up any resource for the sake of moralist.
It’s not as if NEs held back in their expansionist phase.
That said, i can totally see the current Horde leadership giving back said land. But it has less to do with what would be reasonable, and more about keeping on the portrayal of “stupidly goody guy”.
i think the real orc capitol should be a giant smoking hole in the ground and their bones made to pave the path to bloodmyst isle
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Actually we prefer to burry orcs alive to force them to fertilize the trees they chopped down. So they give back what they took.
At least Malfurion seems to think so.
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I mean it could work…?
The Falfarren river would work as a natural border and does allow the Horde to retain access to a section of woodland for a steady supply of lumber.
It would also partition off a land bridge for them to route supply lines through Ashenvale between the Northern Barrens and Azshara, as an alternative to having them pass through the ravines of Ogrimmar.
The only other consideration would be the Horde outposts further west such as Zoram’gar and Hellscreams Watch. They would need to be decommissioned and the territory ceded.
But, if it means the Night Elves have to recognise land east of the river as Horde territory, then it’s probably worth it in order to secure lasting stability for the region by putting an end to their raids and guerrilla incursions.
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I mean, it would be great and logical to us because we can see it from a higher up, multi-racial perspective.
Alas we know that many night elves in-character/canon would never accept parting with any land, then again IF Shandris ever gets in command of the night elven nation she might well allow the Horde that land so the elves get a chance to rebuild and heal the spirit of their people.
But it would always be a contested area, with both the night elves (Alliance) and Horde claiming it as part of themselves and it would probably be one of the reasons why a Fifth War would ever happen.
Ashenvale is strongly connected to NE by theme. When I imagine NE I see them in this forest.
And Horde is not empire by the way.
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Keeping Ashenvale means continuing the war while the horde’s armies and resources are already spent. So giving it up is the logical choice.
Historically, yes Ashenvale and the majority of Kalimdor itself was part of the old Kaldorei empire. Ashenvale in particular having a strong NE theme running right the way through it due to their continued presence after the events of the Great Sundering.
However, as with most thing’s in an evolving world, times change and with that the borders are constantly redrawn based on the needs of those presently living off those lands and the resources they provide.
It’s more out of necessity than a form of imperialistic expansion.
The Fourth War has cash strapped and economically depleted both sides of the conflict. Ready access to any source of raw materials or natural resource are going to prized during the rebuilding and recovery phase.
It’s not about giving up existing lands and holds in order to stake what (on first appearances) appears to be a lesser claim to secure a lasting peace.
As stated above I’ve already set-out the Horde’s economical case.
In addition, you will never get a true peace in the region due to the proximity of the Horde’s factional capital as stated in my preceding post too.
It’s about making concessions in order to validate current major Horde settlements & expansions into otherwise occupied and disputed territories, where the lines of control remain ill-defined or un-ratified.
By doing so you allow some breathing space for the Horde to function with a reduced risk of politically charged incidents occurring in this borderland regional hotspot.
This is called negotiating favourable terms for both sides, where the true prize for the Horde would be recognised continuous access to areas of Ashenvale they already have a significant presence in and the resources it provides.
In the case of the NE it would mean a halt to further aggressive territorial expansion by the Horde which has been the mainstay up until this point under successive Warchiefs going back to Ogrimmar’s founding.
Although you state the Horde’s armies are depleted, i would wager the NE are in more dire circumstances after the loss of their capital and attempted genocide of their race. Any further escalation of the conflict would be bad for both sides but, it would be worse for the NE by a larger margin.
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Actually no.
Ashenvale is a sacret forst for the NEs who came AFTER the sundering. After the Kaldorei Empire. And thus is for Kaldorei identity completely unimaginable to give up. They never would.
The Kaldorei Empire was basically a Bloodelf Empire since the Bloodelves were those who ran it and were exiled after they lost the civil war against their peasents. Which are the current NEs.
And NEs will never even consider a peace taht involes giving up sacret lands. The Land IS the NEs identity. You simply don’t understand its important connection.
So nope. NEs will never give up on Ashenvale.
No matter what.
I disagree with the logic behind this.
Arathi and Stromgarde were mostly in Horde hands, and yet after finishing the War, the Alliance intends on keeping it.
Point being, that only amiability or diplomacy (giving something to show good faith), would back up the reasoning the Horde could’ve had about withdrawing from Ashenvale.
In times of war, sides do not simply hand over any territory they’ve acquired. They only do so if they decide such.
The Alliance took Arathi and Stromgarde from the Horde, and are not giving it back because they feel like they fought for it and took it fair and square. The Horde could’ve felt the same way regarding Ashenvale.
And either posture does not necessarily imply that they were to continue the war.
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