That’s because every time there was an actual “crime” during war times, the culprit behind them often ended up being said Warchief.
Sweeping every mildly aggressive action under the “Crime” tag seems like overreaching.
Being willing to engage in war doesn’t necessarily mean that the Horde would be willing to tag along rampant War crime behaviour. And the latter is what often ended up being denounced, and the reason why they clash against the Warchieves ordering such.
Source?
Thrall was unable to even get more than 40 soldirs togather in Shadows Rising.
The cinematics.
First the Alliance needs to conscript farmers for the war, then the Alliance and rebel Horde have only enough soldiers for one final assault on Orgrimmar, if they lose that… the consequences are left open, but probably wont be pretty.
Its the same as when Garrosh was Warchief, really.
Of course.
That’s one of the reasons why I think that it’s rather likely that the Horde actually gave up on Ashenvale altogether.
In order for this armistice to work, both sides would probably feel like throwing certain acts of goodwill.
Having the Alliance pull every man out of Zandalar, or having the Horde do likewise with Ashenvale, would probably be the sort of token gestures each side would have to show their commitment to this peace.
That said, these remain as they are: concessions.
And doing the weird flex about “rights” or “wouldn’t dare”, is something I see as quite delusional.
That’s not how peace under these conditions work.
It’s in both sides best interest to keep the opposite one, content.
And just as they may be willing to let this be (as the Horde is doing with Arathi for example), they had about every “right” to draw some line with any territory they “gained” in this war. Not saying they did, but if they had, that would’ve been about as logical.
I’ll repeat, that it’s outright delusional to expect every territorial loss to be reverted/handed back, simply because both sides decided to stop killing each other.
Neither is in any way or form, in a position that enables them to throw whatever additional demands they feel like issuing.
I very much doubt Shandris (who I think you are referring to) is willing to concede Night Elven territory, to be honest. She wants to rebuilt, but there is no indication of her thinking the Horde should keep let’s say half of Ashenvale or something.
It’s interesting that you say so, given how back in Wolfheart, she was the one that acknowledged the “Horde part of Ashenvale” when talking about border skirmishes with Orgrimmar.
She may have shifted postures, but still, she was one of the Night elves that actually acknowledged said circumstance.
Wolfheart, interestingly enough, took place around the events of the Cataclysm. Before the agreements made after MoP where the Horde gave back all of their territory in Ashenvale to the Night Elves and even abandoned their border outposts.
The situation changed vastly since then, not to mention that the Horde genocided the Night Elves since then.
Yes for Horde it might not be a “crime” but its not the same from other side. Garioch had many Orcs behind his campaign, many were Blackrock I understand but also orcs that have wanted war. It has been repetitive that Horde is alright with “muh honorable” war campaigns. Whole Horde stood behind Soyfang with cheers. Ashenvale has been hit couple of times, Forsaken have been always expanding in EK. And thats fair, its just not fun when all that is swept under the forgiveness rug by the end of the day.
I can name only two races in Horde that have NOT gone on war rampage for expansion, rest have their history blooded several times and quite recently. I don’t know why this a surprise all of a sudden.
This is a circular argument that could apply to both sides.
If every act of war is a crime, then every race, in both factions, are acting criminally on a regular basis.
That’s how peace works. Both sides had to sweep quite a few of their wrongings under said rug too.
Problem with current war description in game is that it focuses on certain races - Kingdom of Stormwind has bled heavily, alongside Kul Tiras, while there is no mention of Ironforge and Dark Irons. The way war ended is that Horde has Blood Elves having powerhouse while Orgrimmar is still closely surrounded with enemies. Horde has splintered locations of their powerhouses, while remnants of Forsaken could be under threat and undefended unless Blood Elves interfere from North.
Yes, true which was given and established once and warning given after SoO, but everytime there is opportunity Horde is more then happy to answer the drums of war and being aggressors. And the repetitive theme happens again.
The reasons given for the majority of the Horde in order to start this war, weren’t about them being random aggressors.
Chief amongst the pile, was that time when one of the Alliance leaders took the Alliance elite troops, and decided to try and kill the head of state of the Horde at that time.
That act alone, as well as the lack of repercussions it had, was an act of war that made whatever treaty was decided prior, completely null or devoid of any significance.
And there were many other reasons.
Ps: Also, do not mistake previous complacency with forgiveness, or legitimacy. Having the Horde not react immediately after being wronged, doesn’t prevent said acts from creating a pile that any willing leader may call on if or when they decide enough is enough.
But, officially that wasn’t the reason to why call to arms was called for.
And I very much doubt Shandris would push too hard on the matter of 1/4th of Ashenvale if it would cost her people their change to rebuild and heal. Because that is really all Shandris wants at the time, she wants peace so the night elves can heal and rebuild and regain what they have lost. Unlike Tyrande who wishes to remain in all out war.
I thought the Horde maintained the Warsong Camp, but abandoned Splintertree Post and Zoram’gar Outpost?
Also, I am still astonished that the night elves (and draenei) haven’t turned Forest Song into a fortress yet (since TBC) to keep a vigil on the Horde.
This has been a problem for World of Warcraft since… TBC I think. They focus heavily on humans for the Alliance and then Orcs/Forsaken/Blood elves for the Horde totally disregarding the other races of the faction, unless its for minor questlines or whatever.
That is honestly a culture problem. Orcs, trolls and to a lesser extent tauren are based around a martial culture where survival and “glory in battle” are seen as central tenets of that culture. This is then easily turned against any race that is seen as (potentionally) hostile to their faction and/or race.
For many of the Alliance races however, peace and cooperation or the balance of nature are essential pillars of their culture.
Hence it is easier to make the Horde the aggressors because, well they are naturally inclined to be more martial and aggresive.
Lets hope with what the new regent of Stormwind is saying, things might change around for once.
Sadly, Word of God (Blizzard in this case) has explained that the Horde has been the aggressors in both of the wars since vanilla, and started both of the wars.
Yes, both the Horde and Alliance did backstabbing, and certainly you could say it was the Alliance that started the war in Wrath of the Lich King, but alas Blizzard has firmly stated it was Garrosh that started that war and it was Sylvanas that started the Fourth War, no two ways about it. Sadly.
Warsong camp is basically on the Barrens side and at the edge of Ashenvale.
So one can probably argue wether it is still in ashenvale or outside or whatever.
Also what I have mentioned severall times now:
During the peace talks or in Shadows rising when Thrall claims “the Horde has changed”, noone not even Maiev mentions Ashenvale.
If the Horde woudl still occupy it, don’t you think someone would have rubbed that into Thralls face?
Telling you, they should move to Stratholme and be closer to BElves 
Overall, I think in the question of Ashenvale there are like 2 ways to try to get it [for the horde], excluding military approach:
gl hf
Ashenvale was not updated for 2 long. For example from the book we know that Silverwind Refuge was retaken by Anaris Windwood from the Horde during Cata. but in game that place still taken by Garrosh orcs…
Also, when Horde made an attack on Ashenvale by Garrosh order, they manage to destroy Silverwing Sentinels. That faction was fully destroyed. But we still have Warsong Gulch Battleground in the game. Even more, Blizzard made many updates there not so far ago.
Does that means that Silverwing Sentinels faction was restored during the peace time?
Anyway in the book many Alliance bases in Ashenvale are not mentioned at all. Horde made an fast attack to push in to Darkshores, as fast as possible. Ashenvale was not interesting for them.
They just pushed fast to Darkshores, while Alliance was retaking such cities like Astranaar after them. They pushed fast to Lordanel and burned Teldrassil. There they have build a new base near Lordanel. And from there they have send their armies to defend Lordaeron.
There was no information that the Horde forces have moved back to Ashenvale and again manage to retake cities like Astranaar from Alliance. There was no information that the Horde started to regroup and rebuild their forgotten bases in Ashenvale. There was no information that the Horde manage to destroy every single Night Elves outposts and bases in Ashenvale.
So, before discussing should the Horde keep Ashenvale, at first we need to have some sort of a proof that the Horde actually has Ashenvale…
Also WoT depended on being timely critical. Saurfang mentioned that several times that if they were not done within 3 days or so, the sentinel army would arrive and they would be unable to push any futher.
They had no time to skirmish in Ashenvale at all. And after that they had to move to Lordaeron where they have been defeated.
From that on the Horde lost every major war scene in BFA. Implying their manpower was not big enough to really holy any advancements made.
Horde left Ashenvale completely, even Mor’shan which was turned to a Night Elf border outpost.
Have a source for that? Because there is a quest that says otherwise:
It specifically names Splintertree Post. And talks about outpostS, in plural across Ashenvale.
The kal’dorei siege our outposts across Ashenvale. Splintertree Post must not be allowed to fall. Send reinforcements.
Whereas the Alliance side of the achievement, addresses as Horde-controlled:
Warsong Camp
And Zoram’gar Post:
So, unless you have definite proof regarding the canonical outcome regarding any of those settlements, the Horde indeed held a notable position across Ashenvale in BfA.