The Lightbound did nothing wrong and the Mag'har hypocrisy

How are MU orc relevant regarding the AU? AU Grom rejected Fel. Twice.

Wasn’t this about the Lightbound and AU Draenor?

Again, what’s MU have to do with AU Draenor?
In AU, aside from the obvious Burning Legion, you also had stuff like the Sargerei. Draenei that turned towards Fel fully knowing what was about.
And aside from the few Shadow Council members, close to zero green skinned orcs.

Yeah, because the current Mag’har are mostly younglings who were born after Archimonde’s death.

Edit: And if we are to have random hypothetical statements about how probable is the scenario of orcs getting swayed by Fel, Draenei beat them by a great margin. Statistically speaking and given the percentages of their race.
At least orcs had to be fooled into it.
Not to derail, but I found this noting funny.

Duh, because the Eredar populated an entire utopian planet, whereas the orcs populated a single war-torn continent. Of course Sargeras found more recruits in the Eredar.

The Eredar were also fooled as Sargeras appeared to them as an angelic being and showed Archimonde and Kil’jaeden visions of peace and prosperity. Velen refused only because the Naaru granted him a vision showing him the truth behind Sargeras’ lies.

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I gave you real examples of comparable people going bad. The AU orcs still have much in common with the ones on Azeroth. And the Iron Horde jumped at the first opportunity it had at the fel, once things went bad. Killrogg and all \o\

Btw, the Lightbound have done what exactly? What are their real crimes, other than perhaps excessive force in attempting to unify a planet? They were enslaved by the AU Orcs and could have been wiped out.

Wanna start counting in HFC? Betcha that there’s more than 2 Draenor fel orcs for every Draenor fel draenei. And no we can’t count the people who were Legion before HFC, like the Tyrant lady. Cos we’re comparing corrupted populations from Draenor alone.

I want numbers people, clear numbers! (Which don’t exist btw so your point cannot work). Why yes, one wartorn continent that could easily hold the population of the rather small planet that is Argus (3 zones totalling the size of Ashenvale and a bit).

Indeed.

Throws a hundred corpses of AU fel orcs onto Zarao

What? WHAT? I can’t hear you over all these HFC trash mobs of fel orcs. WHAT?!

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Actually, you’re right. Argus isn’t that big. Why? Because it only has 3 zones just like Kul Tiras. So I’d say that Argus is about the size of Kul Tiras or Zandalar. it’s definitely smaller than Pandaria, Northrend, and Draenor.

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The zone size is highly inconsistent due to gameplay reasons, but if someone wants to use that point in an argument to estimate population numbers - Let’s fit Argus into Pandaria sure!

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I’m not particularly interested in “moralizing” or whatever, but why modern world morals should be left out of the picture?

The Lightbound seem pretty clearly designed around the concept of “zealotry” and the slippery slope it often leads to (like most extremist positions do).

Even assuming their actions could be considered “not wrong” in the in-game setting, they are still created with the intent of being observed and judged by the target audience, which is modern world gamers.

Basically, they might not necessarily be “bad guys” in-game, but it doesn’t mean they have to be equally judged “not bad guys” by the audience.

The Lightbound are wrong because they actively recruit orcs and Yrel calls Grom “old friend”? Like what the hell? If they did the things because they wanted revenge on the proto-greenskins, I’d support them. As far as I’m concerned, they are just another type of Twilight’s Hammer.

It’s quite ironic, coming from a Lightforged, or in other words ‘‘brainwashed’’, draenei. And reading lines like -

helping the other lesser races to ascend into far greater purpose than what their meaningless lives would have done alone

…shows that there is something really screwed with your head and people who think the same way.
The real life analogs were horrific and terribly wrong, subjugation, …slavery…and the Lightbound are doing the same thing, enslaving races to their religion due to being blind followers themselves. And you can actually, with a straight face, say that’s normal? Making the orcs slaves to some cosmic power is normal? lol

For what Lightbound, and even Lightforged, are doing is an atrocious act, they are a danger to the whole world in terms of their desire to ‘‘enslave’’ every race, making them puppets of the Light.
Velen is smart, AU Velen was smart, but after his death, the Draenei there went completely off the rails under the leadership of Yrel.
You have to be truly weak and pathetic to surrender yourself to any force, even Light, and thus the LB and LF are a bunch of failures.

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Neither have the Mag’har. And if you go by race and judge the mag’har by the deeds of the old horde, than you can judge the Lightbound too, because the old horde was brought to Azeroth by one of their kin.
To be honest. Without their race’s involvement OTL-Draenor would propably still house the original Orcs as seen in Outland. Free of corruption and mostly peaceful. And Azeroth would have way less problems with undead, demons, warlocks etc.

The Mag’har are the remnants of the Iron Horde. Their former leader Grommash is the one who started that invasion in the first place.

than you can judge the Lightbound too, because the old horde was brought to Azeroth by one of their kin.

In fact, I do not like the Draenei scum. They are subhuman garbage like the orcs; Only, they are better, thus they get my vote.

Is that before or after the Highmountain tribe happily work along with the Queen of Undeath, defiling nature across multiple continents?

The Alliance has not forgotten your bombings…

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AU-Grommash never left Draenor. He is a different person to our universes Grommash.
The Mag’har we have are now led by the leader of one of the two orc-clans who resisted the iron horde.

And still… the Iron Horde under Grommash was not wrong, considering what the draenei did when left in peace.
(sorry, couldn’t resist using the standart Garithos/Daelin did nothing wrong argument)

Did you not play Warlords of Draenor? He is the one who ordered the invasion of Azeroth and tried to kill everyone.

The Mag’har we have are now led by the leader of one of the two orc-clans who resisted the iron horde.

They were formerly led by the one who founded the Iron Horde.

And still… the Iron Horde under Grommash was not wrong, considering what the draenei did when left in peace.

Hahaha, No. It doesn’t work like that. It’s not like I can kill a baby beacuse he might grew up to become a dictator.

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Except they can leave any time, but they want to be united with the tauren bretheren, to honor them. Lightbound/Lightforged don’t have that option, your very willpower has been subjugated by the Light, like puppets playing by the strings. Your mind ‘‘purged’’ so you would never doubt or see anything negative about the Light and everything else is evil.
Essentially, you are a brainwashed slave to your precious ‘‘Light’’ without even knowing it. At least the HM would have the guts and free will to talk against Sylvanas, if they so desired.

skipped most of it and must have missed that. sorry.

Doesn’t change my original argument though:
No Eredar > No problems.

He left Draenor because Garrosh lied to him.
Garrosh had daddie issues because otl-Grom left Draenor because KJ lied to the Orcs.
KJ was lured to Draenor by the Draenei.

So still valid even with this mistake.

Let me show you the flaw of this argument:

No Void > No problems.

So It’s all the Void’s fault.

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By all means, converse with the Alliance, defy orders, perhaps even leave the Horde. Let us see how that went…poor Baine :confused:

Evidence? Illidan had a non-con scene with the windchime, tis true. But she was obliterated for it, and if the Lightforged were so trapped by the Light - where’s the breaking-out-of-a-trance? Or the enrage? Turalyon was understandably furious, but he clearly didn’t put much effort into getting vengeance.

The name isn’t enough to constitute evidence…ironically.

Do the Lightforged unlock scenario. It emphasises ‘making peace’ with internal emotions and a balancing out of traumatic memories/fear. If anything, if there was any kind of brainwashing it would be more likely that a feledar would be created. And it’s said that monster(s?) were created when initiates fail the process.

Where’s Baine? I want him to be the next Warchief, but he’s not walking around free…… :confused:

You don’t like feledar hugs?

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Then clearly you misinterpreted it. When someone or something messes with your mind in a way the Light does in the Lightforged scenario, it’s brainwashing.
Your mind is being ‘‘cleansed’’ so you would undoubtably, without question serve the Light forever after, you become blinded, that all you can see is all this amazing, magnificent force of good and justice, when it really isn’t so. Light corrupts, like any power, the LF simply had their mentality altered in a way that they don’t see the bad side, only the good one.
If that wasn’t enough evidence, then the assaults now in 8.1, speak volumes about the true nature of the LF, how they have practically no will of their own, well, heavily suppressed, that is. They share similarities with Scourge minions at this point, just replace the Lich King with the ‘‘Light’’ or Naaru or whatever.

feledar would be created

Eredar who joined the Legion, did so willingly in promise of power, they didn’thave the minds wiped or altered like the LF.

The Thing is: The Void didn’t deceive Sargaras to form the Legion.
He saw what it did and reacted to it.
The Void is the mirror of the light.

Pure enthropy vs. pure order (stagnation).
Mutation vs. petrification.
Madness vs. Robot.

If one of them “wins” no life can ever exist.

No, the point is that everything can ultimately be blamed on the Void, since it clashed with the Void and created the cosmos, including Sargeras, Archimonde, Kil’jaeden, Grommash, Garrosh, and every other bad guy.