The "Marvelization of Cinema" and how it can affect WoW negatively too (or already does)

What this is about

In the last 6 years over the course of BfA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight we have seen ups and downs in the story telling of WoW.

From going big with many story lines that were not as much fleshed out as they could have been (BfA) to lore-breaking story explanations and fillers most of us didn’t really want (Shadowlands) and a “recovery-program” with our recent “Azeroth needs to heal” expansion (Dragonflight).

And while we have Chris Metzen now finally back at the steering wheel and many interviews mention “the passion” he gives to the Universe again, I want the other Narrative leads, seniors, juniors, etc. to have a look at this video from “Like Stories of Old” Youtube Channel.

What the video is about

In the video linked below, the creator of the video goes in detail over how the Movie Industry has changed in its product creation and perception with movies and shows compared to earlier decades where movies like Lord of the Rings, the original Star Wars trilogy and Christopher Nolans Batman movies were made, which all became part of movie history in their own ways.

To do that the creator tried to categorize aspects and handlings of movies under a self-used term called “Storytelling Entropy”

One of the main points is that for example how Marvel movies after the Infinity War saga are merely made “like ordered”, with lots of “nostalgic” references or shot angles/actions re-used instead of being born out of pure passion for an idea with new creative spirit. As comparison is also named the difference between how Lord of the Rings was perceived versus the Hobbit trilogy in both narrative/visual display and execution.

How it is relevant to World of Warcraft

Many of the points in the video can be also applied to narrative/game development. And especially in WoWs case with recent cutscenes like “It was about coming together as family!”-Kalecgos clearly referencing Fast and the Furious or the “Arthas Stance” with Anduin in the The War Within Reveal Cinematic (which btw. is one that was done well and natural). But it also can be taken into context of the Jailor from Shadowlands as a whole with all the retcons or the many different story lines of BfA colliding with each other over the course of the seasons.

I think many of both new and old Narratives at Blizzard can (re-)learn something from this video essay. So, please take your time and watch it with attention and patience.

For those watching the video (including players on the forum here), please be aware… The essay video is quite long with 40 minutes.

The Marvelization of Cinema - YouTube - (40mins)


Edits & Bookmarks:

Another video speaking about the same problem in regards of fun factor with games.

8 Likes

sorry what is your point wow has always referenced pop culture … heck cata had a whole zone dedicated to indiana jones are you getting forgetful in your old age Heramaar ? or maybe you wasen’t around for dragonflight 1.0 aka Cata

you can argue that deathwing got the friendship ending too

if anything modern blizzard has to few pop culture references and friendship speeches and green jesus thrall moments heck thrall pretty much coined the whole the horde is family bullcrap :smiley:

3 Likes

That was even in WOTLK in grizz hills , i guess the op is still to be considered new to the game.
I mean its even as far back in classic with pop culture.

2 Likes

true true i feel like people are A: not old enough to have played back then B: or trying to argue in dishonesty

1 Like

For example some quests in STV and there reference to Apocalypse Now :slight_smile:

everyone’s favorite dwarf is a refeference to a book author or something right the hunting obessed one

2 Likes

You really need to play through all expacs and all quests pre and after cata( which you can do on classic atm) to make any truthful comments on the matter because with your limited play time you have a very narrow view.

heck you can argue a family speech was even given to garrosh by thrall in tbc its what got him out of his slump :smiley:

2 Likes

Yes wow have always had references to movies and other enternainment. That’s nothing new or shocking.

Op is talking about the main plot and it’s cinematics which are very obviously and mindlessly influenced by whatever the writers like from marvel.

2 Likes

I’ve seen you on multiple posts now shilling wow’s terrible plot.

So first of all, alot of people generally consider Cata the start of WoW’s downfall, it’s where the game went from the occasional meme quest, to entire zones built on 5 year old memes. This has continued to devolve over time till every character and main story has become 2D.

Look at kalecgos, thousands of years old, lead the kirin tor, now a whiney teen in personality because… reasons.

Their plot lines for expansions have done very much the same, slowly devolving in why we’re actually doing what we’re doing. For example, where did this massive primalist army come from? How did they magically some how find the dragon isles when even the dragons couldn’t? What was the actual end game goal of the primalist organisation? How were they in contact with the primal dragons that were sealed away?

I do however disagree with the video, marvalization is a poor term because it’s something that occurred long before marvel. As any series progresses, writers tend to lose creative ideas on what to do with characters and storylines, as well as having so much in past development to keep track of so as to not contradict something already established. To deal with this, over time they remove all nuance, and have the characters boiled down to one core personality trait which you can slot in easier to any story beat. The upside is you don’t have to worry too much about contradicting other character development moments/story beats because everything is so bare bones, the downside is you really struggle to have any real meaningful and engaging character/world development from that point onwards, what you’re relying on is that the fans were already engaged with said character/world when it had depth and now you’ve removed it you’re keeping them hooked with continuing something they already liked.

You can see this in the TV show scrubs for example, JD while never being overly masculine in personality at the beginning of the series, was not that effeminate. However as the series continued, he became more and more flamboyant and exaggerated. It’s lazy but it’s an easy way to churn out lots of storylines without having to worry too much about contracting other story beats.

3 Likes

no shilling here just stating fact i know that GD is immune to fact though they rather plug their ears and cling to their misinformation about a game that never was

1 Like

The problem with the Marvel and DC universes is that stories like Superman and Spiderman should have ended before I was even born. Instead they keep recycling and milking that cash cow instead of trying to do something innovative and new. In part, I can’t blame them. If the masses gobble up whatever they spew why try harder.

WoW might be approaching that point, where it is no longer capable of innovation, and it will just be supported by those of us who will accept anything they write as long as it’s half decent with a dash of nostalgia.

4 Likes

Warcraft is not original and it has always been copying other successful franchises while managing to be more popular somehow. Even the whole “evil sword takes control of a good character” is not original with the plot of Arthas.

Heck, even the name of Warcraft is basically the combination of Warhammer+Lovecraft. WoW has always been “marvelized”.

1 Like

Too bad cataclysm is overall better in narrative than everything that was before XD, many voiced quests and good storylines that actually eventful, while vanilla and tbc is a fricking boredom (vanilla atleast is good at world building, i don’t understand how someone could play tbc and don’t kill someone in the process), wotlk is on par with cata but has high amount of meme questlines too.

df kalecgos is literally same kalecgos that we know since TBC

1 Like

Kek

The majority of the characters are decades old. It’s actually even worse than Marvel/DC because they have all became clones of each others, blanked personnality good-doers that try to save the world. And the few characters that get introduced are pretty much the same. Even Wrathion, after having a teenager crisis of “I want to lead I want to lead I want to lead”, has been watered down to a good-doer for the sake of it.

Heck, I’ve played Lost Ark, the story’s basis is very simple, (you gather the Lost Arks across the world to save the world from demons), and the characters are often cliche’d (The wise old guy and his young brash student, the guiding lady, the young king who’s lawful good to a fault…), yet they do have their own personalities and are charismatic in their own ways, despite all either ultimately wanting to save the world or destroy it.

What’s the difference between Thrall, Anduin, Jaina, Alextrazsza, Kalecgos, Khadgar? If I told you “Wise, thoughtful, cares for others, prone to action and powerful”, you probably wouldn’t know who the hell I’m talking about.

3 Likes

it’s irrelevant because warcraft doesn’t have character driven storylines, and there are certainly differences between jaina and kalecgos, thrall and khadgar, anuin and alexstrasza. All of this characters are different, you are spitting rubbish

There’s a difference between copying other franchises but putting a spin on it and recycling your own plot just for nostalgia points.

Oh yeah, that’s definitely worse. No disagreement there.

No, I wasn’t around back then. But I can imagine that old Blizzard executed it better narratively than this seasons “family” cutscene at the end of the raid. Or the Jailor.

I think the important difference is that those references in Warcrafts/WoWs earlier lifespan were much more subtle and less blunt in their presentation.

The thing is, I am not talking about old WoW. I am talking about new WoW. I am not speaking in the main topic about old WoW either, just the last 3 expansions.

Exactly. Livia gets it.

Adn that is something the Devs at Blizzard SHOULDN’T pursue as their production workflow. It’s one thing to re-iterate on something, making it better. It’s another re-cycling something old by giving it just a new paint job.

That’s why I made this post. To raise awareness.

While this is true, you have to keep in mind that Warcraft always had its own spin/take on things, even when copying other franchises.

Yep, they feel sometimes a bit one-dimensional. Vyranoth is the recent addition to that sometimes-collection. From Depth to “Family!” quite quickly compared between before she helps us and the cinematic of the raid.

I really don’t like marvel, and if they wanna reference pop culture, why not something cool instead … I also know that my generation are not marvel fans usually. I don’t know a single marvel fan in general actually. Not a single one. I think that’s the older people at Blizzard projecting a bit much.