The "Mortal Strike effect" is an outdated mechanic

PVP Arenas
21

It’s not healing itself. I’ve been trying to say this multiple times.

  1. Healer balance literally just requires Holy Paladin to receive actual nerfs
  2. Healers don’t want to queue Solo shuffle because they are healing bad DPS players or facing a Holy Paladin
  3. For Solo Shuffle, healer MMR/CR gains are awful because they keep putting 2 healers with a big MMR gap between them. You go 4-2? Too bad, you get nothing, coz the guy you just 4-2 is 100 mmr lower than you.

Logically speaking, getting low to no rewards for beating lower-rated players than you makes sense (I guess this is Blizzard’s logic) but it DOES NOT make sense to consistently face lower rated enemy healers instead of people at your own rating. This is likely due to the shortage, which feeds in itself to create this problem as a bonus. A vicious never-ending cycle.

So yes, what healers need right now is for Holy Paladin to get gutted really good.

Mortal Strike effects have been in the game for forever. And even they are not enough to get some players killed.

There was a conversation between Lontar and Whazz a few days ago, where Whazz was complaining that healing should get NERFED because games are too long. I didn’t agree personally, but I don’t agree with these threads about overbuffing healers either.

Because the reality is, there are too many variables in arena PvP. Whazz is not having fun on the ladder playing 10 minute games because all players play good in keeping eachother alive, and neither are the low rated Solo Shuffle players who die in the opener because they don’t know how to play properly and neither do their teammates.

Nerfing Holy Paladin properly will solve a lot of the issues currently because people are rerolling the spec left and right because it is insanely strong and easy to play. I have multiple healer main friends who rerolled because nobody would invite them on their main class…

I myself lost my last Solo Shuffle as Hpriest 1-5 to a Holy paladin and since he was lower rated I lost a loot of MMR dropping from like 2350 mmr to like 2270 or something, I even outhealed him every round, didn’t tank a lot of CC or get kicked or anything. I just can’t keep people alive as long as he can. If it was a Shaman, a Mistweaver, a Resto Druid, it would go very differently.

1 Like
22

I think venruki said quite a good line aswell.
Basically that in higher rating people know how to play, so games ends up going quite long because they know how to keep themselves alive.
In medium/lower rating when people either dont use defensives or use it badly they can instantly die instead due to massive misplay.

So in terms of overall feeling its a big difference between them.

23

Yes. Low MMR solo shuffle almost feels RNG as a healer, you can’t anticipate the next 10 seconds based on which CDs are available, because you have no guarantee that those CDs will be used by your team mates.

Healing above 1900 MMR is much more relaxing, except when there are mages involved and you get positioning PTSD.

24

Which is why less healers queue shuffle. You can’t fix a human factor.

If you had the option to heal premade people which classes go well with yours and press cds and run away when your CC-ed or you had the option of getting an instant pop into healing complete donuts, is it a hard choice?

I personally couldn’t care less for the 1400 healer players (or even dps) who log in for 2 hours per week and complain. If you want to play the game extremely casually, then don’t expect to push high ratings. PvP is about time commitment if you want high ratings. Solo Shuffle is based off the Moba game formats for games such as League where 5 random people are put into a lobby against eachother.

Does it take a long time to push ranks in League for most people? Yes.
Are the people who rarely play, don’t track the meta or patch notes or don’t know what most mechanics do stuck in lower ratings? Yes.

Now, if you are a 1400 rated player who wants to push high ratings, achieve goals and is ready to invest time into learning and playing - great! I have huge respect for you and would help out anybody regarding such a thing gladly.

So, as I said before, fix healer MMR for Shuffle and let people believe their suffering comes with rewards. And nerf Holy Paladin so healers are balanced.

No, healing DPSes which are at least 2300 you start to see normal behavior and gameplay. Of course everybody has their standards, for some pressing Shaman wall at 30% is good enough, for others actually tremoring fears and grounding traps is a standard.

But yes, if you want to experience healing good players, then push rating. Queues are instant. If you lose to a Holy Paladin, or because 1 guy is so bad he goes 0-6, I can’t blame you, I’ve been there too. But if you lose a lobby completely to the same spec as you, then it’s time to use a mirror and git gut, isn’t always the game’s fault.

Cause you can’t argue that if you’re a Resto Shaman vs a Resto shaman and the other guy goes 5-1 it’s the game’s fault. It isn’t. The guy is simply better than you at your own class.

25

With the way that the game currently is all passive Mortal Strikes should be removed in favour of strong, activated effects with reasonable counterplay such as Sharpen or Hemotoxin.

Healing Reductions as we know them today should have died off with the advent of Dampening.

26

dno what you are playing but MS has never felt so useless to me like in this xpac.
Healing might be too high for MS to really matter anymore because the game as it is atm only cares about doing the maximum pve damage and pairing together broken speccs which can maximize pve/survivability.

I also play rdruid from time to time, never did i have to think we might have lost because MS was up or because i had to spend more to heal. Literally every button/global stays the same tops the guy in the same way ms or not, mana stays the same, its just irrelevant. Its as if blizzard built healers to be so powerful with that in mind resulting mortal strike useless. Remember during beta blizzard knew how powerful healers are and they had to slap -10% dampening at all times.

The only time you feel your healing actually being cut is during sharpen or 12 stacks slaughterhouse

27

if all heals are so strong then why is no one queing shuffles as one and the few that are still left are majorly switching to hpala

28

I wander if no one sees the obvious contradiction .

Some people want fast games .
But blizzard wants healers in those games .
Healers do not play to die in 15 seconds . Healers play to survive .
Fast games vs survival games are different .
You want fast games , make dps only bracket .
You want healers make a survival bracket .

Expecting healers to queue and die in the opener is not why you would bother healing at all . Also healing is broken everywhere . In bgs you are Devine being changing the sway of battles . In arena you are a punching bag that people only hate .

Also taking away something from meeeelleeeeee … Yea like that is gonna happen . I already hear the grunting in the bushes .

1 Like
29

Absolutely correct.

Then don’t die in the opener. Don’t be trash at the game. Oh wait it’s shuffle at low rating, gotta balance the game around that. Forget those 10 minute games at high rating where people know what they are doing, gotta balance the game around the zugzug low ratings

Game is balanced around the potential of classes, e.g classes being played good from people who know what they are doing.

30

I don’t die in the opener, I live long enough to become useless in high dampening and that’s worse.

1 Like
31

So what, you want a 15 minute struggle to win? The same happens for the enemy healer.

32

I said I wanted to cap dampening at 40%, not delete dampening altogether.

This will still weaken healers and make it possible to kill people - but healers won’t be completely useless and will be able to make good plays.

33

Absolutely agree ! Great Logic ! . Forget low ratings where 90% of the people play . Let only the top 5-10 % play the game .

Btw if you are trash and want to learn and you queue only to get destroyed when the gates open , would you queue again ? I’d say f. this s. and go slay dragons . And you sit there playing with your 100 players EU wide .

Also by your logic . Don’t be trash and kill good instead of turtling for 10 minutes .
Elitist logic at it’s best .
The game should not be designed for the best of the best . It should be designed for the most of the most .
Why ? Because when it is designed for the best , the most will not play as it is not for them .
When it is designed for the most , nothing stops you from being the best still .

34

I hope you both understand that healing buffs and the removal of dampening will not change the fact that your teammate did not interrupt polymorph, did not press a defensive, and died behind the pillar.

Why do you think classes like Resto druid and Holy priest struggle on low rating a lot more than high rating? Because they have more healing and less buttons to prevent dmg on you. And oftentimes healing is just not enough, when some guy has 5 defensives available and presses 0.

If you want to learn to heal, and you decide to queue Solo Shuffle instead of a premade Arena bracket, you have to understand that you cannot press your zugzug teammate’s buttons for them. Everybody is responsible for pressing their own buttons.

You guys want to live in a fairytail land where every DPS can make 50 mistakes per game and you can still keep him alive. You can’t.

If a guy wants to cross the street on a red light and you see that from 40 yards away, and he gets ran over, that isn’t something that is your fault.

35

Yes.
Proof: we’re all here. And we were all trash when we started.

Same for any other game too.
New StarCraft players, new League of Legends players, are all garbage and all get destroyed 24/7.

People who are weak and can’t handle defeat will give up. Normal people who can take a challenge will persevere and L2P.

36

You didn’t get my point.

I didn’t call the healers trash. I called the DPS’es who die in the opener bad.

You have to understand that if somebody doesn’t know what they are doing and is playing to die, he will die, no matter how much effort you put into keeping him alive.

Read.

37

i mean there is no healers playing the game, people disappearing, so my statement stands as follow

replying me something related to 2/3s or whatever doesnt change the fact that there are hardly any healers queing shuffles

38

You should not be able to die in the opener unless you screw up extremely bad or you are having a gladiator vs noob .

You say mistakes should be punished , but the most popular classes by far are wheelchair classes like warrior and paladin in arenas and hunters in bgs .
Why because you can make mistakes and recover from them and still do good .
Go try arcane mage . You don’t press that defensive at the right time or don’t kite like a boss , you are dead meat before your global cooldown has recovered .
People want to play easy classes that let them respond as most players are REACTIVE .
Only top players are PROACTIVE .

AS in the example above arcane mage can be good in the rights hands , but trash in 90% of the players .
On the other side a backpaddling hunter or a warrior can top kills in bgs without knowing any of the abilities of the classes he is attacking .

Same with healers . You wonna play healer good , you need to read the whole freaking wiki on every class and set a bunch of stuff to know when and what to use .
You wonna play warrior ? Just queue .
Result 10000000 warriors . No healers .

39

i mean there are no healers playing the game, its blasted at us literally everywhere and anyone can que shuffles and see for themselves the que times. why someone would even try contradict it when its the biggest issue with shuffle as of now this is just dumb to even argue about it there is not enough healers in shuffles and there is underlying issues related healing which blizzard has done no remedy on, period

40

I actually stopped playing healer because I got stuck at 1700 rating. There were actually games that I won 5-1 just to get 0 rating out of it. I constantly go 3-3 or 4-2 and get nothing. At least give me gold if you don’t want to give me rating Blizzard lol :smiley:

Also the constant games where I am 1700 and I get 2100 DPS… It’s not fun for the healer and it’s for sure not fun for the DPS to play in a lobby with such huge differences in rating.