How about we have solo shuffle 3DPS vs 3DPS and just have all DMG reduced by 50% in that game? Also have dampening reduce healing and increase DMG taken so that eventually it goes back to normal DMG? But that would probably require all specs to have some type of self healing to not make the more tanky specs just own.
no, i dont want that. i could take soloq for 2s tho with the option of game start without heals
3 dps vs 3 dps is not natural in arena setting, possibility of double dps for 2s is already option in 2v2 and in some privas its soloq too
3v3 type format is closest to real arenas but i dont want to sit 40min ques for it, i just dont care wait 20 or 30min between games its dumb
priva soloq had 2-5min q as dps, compare that to wait 40min for this weird shuffle fiesta and what do you gain for your time idk is it worth
The problem isn’t with actual healing.
The problem is with bad healer MMR gains
like this
And Holy paladin literally dominating every other healer.
Those are actually easier for a healer, because you can expect the DPS to play more safe and properly and more often see where you are, if you are in CC, etc.
Let’s say you’re healing a 1500 mage and a 2200 mage.
The 1500 Mage stands mid field all game, munches all dmg, has no Alter time or Ice block keybind.
The 2200 Mage presses Alter time at high hp, kites when you get CC-ed and stops CC on you as well.
So the question is would you rather heal donuts from which you can expect nothing to be properly done, or rather heal people who try to enable you to play a less-stressful game?
But the gap between games is annoying, I agree. And this all ties into the issue with 1+ hour DPS queues. Sure we can all be buddies and have the same rating, both healers and DPS, but then its a 1+ hour queue. CBA.
The problem in these games is I’m not at the level of 2100 yet 
As a Rdruid if 2100+ players do a quick swap to me I’m almost always dead, at 1700 they rarely swap and even if they do they are potatoes so I can survive it
EDIT:
Just recently as MM hunter I had a game at 2k rating with 1600 healers. Every single game was a clown fiesta where both teams would just go 100% healer and every single game ended in 30secs. It’s hard to survive as a healer when you are being trained by 2 guys with 400-500 rating more than you.
Well it’s always the same thing in PvP. Identify the weak link, and kill him.
Even in 1100 rated games if some guy is dying every round for 2-3 rounds in a row, he becomes the default kill target for everybody. It’s a lot about what impression you make in the first 1-2 rounds, e.g if you decided to stand mid map munching all CC or dmg or you made yourself hard to chase or hit.
yea i agree with all the points you made but we still have problem of too few healers for the system and people not wanting to play it due to various reasons
we know why there is too few and we know why its not fun to heal it but whats the solution to get healers for this game, we have problem of too few people not having fun healing the game which is not going away till something is done about it
were not getting paid to brainstorm this tho, were consumers playing the game which is losing players
Just give healers WoW tokens if they played more than 100 games per month as healer. Or enough gold to be able to buy a WoW token each month for playing healer. You’ll see a ton of healers waiting in queues cause there are not enough DPS. You’ll even get gold farmers start botting healers instead of bot farming. Problem solved
Well if we follow the logic of how the game has been through the years
- Previous expansion had much less healer complaints, and they were usually due to 1 healer spec being fully broken and taking over. Reference to Holy Priest Season 3 of Shadowlands taking over the game.
- Game balance was much worse. Responses to broken things either never got addressed or took half a year at least to be.
- Previous expansion had much quicker, bigger and more oneshot / instakill balancing issues.
- This expansion introduced Solo Shuffle as a Rated Game mode.
Soooo…
Why do you think there were not even close to as many “healing is hard” complaints in Shadowlands?
Because in SL you didn’t have to heal random donuts. You healed whoever you wanted to heal. You could tell your DPS he is playing like garbage so they would play better, instead of being scared for getting banned for saying Hi in the starting room.
You knew that Timmy the Ret paladin was the guy you invited to the group, the guy who knows WW monks can spin and kill him in 0.5 seconds, and would still react and press bubble.
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shadowlands healer complaints were about balance issues just like now, shadowlands had no shuffle related complaints as shadowlands didnt have shuffle
we all know this and uve said the same thing related 2/3s quite many times now on the post that it is easyer to heal competent people in 2/3s than randos with various exp in shuffles, but we have healer drought as of now on the mode that is majorly only source of pvp in the game which sadly is the shuffle
so i take it your suggestion is to remove shuffle as i havent seen any other solution suggestions from you yet, ill note it on piece of paper
i mean no offense but everytime someone makes post related “shuffle bad would this be fix” you say “it is easyer to heal people in 2/3s” or something in the lines, that is not helpful on the topic that shuffle has no healers or solution for it and aslong shuffle remains in game there is no 2/3s for majority of pvpers which means 2/3s remain deflated and beyond worth
so we need solutions for shuffle to attract heals on it or remove the mode, or remove 2/3s and force healers in shuffle, i dont care i just want to play the game instead wait ridiculous ques or modes that are ridiculously deflated, and i wont play healer in shuffle as there is too many issues for healing it
current best option for healers is to play dps for shuffle, and thats why there is no heals in the mode, people are not dumb they minmax their options weight the effort and gain equations for it and do the best option which is fotm and dps
Basically, yeah. There are many different ways to create a viable, user friendly, non toxic Group finding system that people can queue into.
A big portion of the reason nobody respects Solo Shuffle experience is because things are randomized, you don’t know what to expect.
It’s closer to a casino than a competitive rated game mode.
Casino factor 1: You can be put into a terrible lobby for your class / spec
Casino factor 2: You have no idea if you can expect your teammates to do literally anything for you or properly in general
Casino factor 3: Oftentimes people have big rating differences resulting in 4-2s etc giving no rating or mmr
What I’m trying to say is there is no solution to actually fix Solo Shuffle on low ratings for healers.
This is considering the healer player is decent, and wants to improve on their own but they are stuck. I do not comment any people who want to queue 2 hours per week in WoW and want to be 2400 or anything. You want to be casual, you stay at your casual rating if you refuse to try to improve.
You can inflate Shuffle MMR again to high heaven like season 1 again if you want a bandaid on something that is broken by default. So people who are 1300 skill level get their 1800 Elite sets again. I don’t mind at all, it’s just not realistic.
In fact the Season 1 inflation led many people to believe they are better than they are, especially Ret paladins for example. And now reality hits in for many of them.
well the season 2s start mmr cap did alot harm on the game and were still suffering the effects of it so i think that is not the right direction either nor something blizz should ever do again
and as for shuffle healer drought the only real solution to even try attract people heal it would be to increase healers gains in someway as theyre climbing slower than dps and that makes alot people to simply switch to dps as some ppl just care about the achievements and not the role or class they play its just optimizing what gets you what you need, either that or rework the whole system
currently we have too few people who want to heal shuffle cause the gains are worse than dps and then we have drought cause of the start of season mess, i go through healers in stream and theyre all in hc and saying that they come back at the end of season example so there you go people left and now they come back at the end
Exactly, this is what I said and agree with.
But otherwise, you get what you queue for, in a sense. You want to queue your healer character at 1400, and random people die randomly, nothing unusual happened.
People were asking for Solo Queue for years, so they got it. But now people have to bear in mind that the literal demon players who are toxic to everybody and play terrible also have access to your games 
In a previous expansion those people simply weren’t invited by anybody
And to become better at the game you need 2 things (unless you’re an AWC / R1 player):
- Admitting to yourself that you also make mistakes and wanting to improve
- Somebody better than you to learn from
Spamming games at high mmr does make you better by itself, but people who don’t know basics on low ratings end up doing 5000 games at 1.2 cr or something. That is either refusing to admit you can improve, or simply not having the time for it.
im well aware of it, and it is one big issue which makes me stay away from healing shuffles as I have to heal people I would never play with if were to go in lfg
on dps i take something positive 4-2 5-1 from them and gain, on heal i get 3-3 and not gain anything and frankly after seen their first rounds performances i would rather leave than continue waste more effort just to have 3-3 in the end as healer on the mode
solution again is to go dps for shuffle, still i dont think the 30-50min ques are really doing long term good for pvp
The less people play the less complaints you have 
Watch at the wow google trends for the past 5 years if you want to know why people complained “less” in SL
Like the game isn’t that bad right now (much better than SL and BfA) it’s more like an unfinished product with stubborn devs who refuse to fix obvious issues.
Kinda hate to break it down to you but no successful game is doing that. I remember an interview with a LoL dev who flat out said that they’re balancing the game in a way that the slightly above average player has a great time. The closest you can get is probably DOTA2 but even that games doesn’t ignore the average brackets (and is a lot less popular than LoL btw). And why would any business oriented company design the game around the top 100 people, it doesn’t make sense and neither you nor me would do that if you want to make money with the product.
There are no 10 minute Shuffle rounds and call me crazy but I don’t see a problem if some games in high ranking last for 10 minutes. And even if that’s a problem you also have the option to tune down defensives of dps classes instead of buffing damage, buffing dampening, buffing mortal strike and nerfing healers. The game has a lot of problems but the game length isn’t one of them.
Well, I remember telling people that the reason why they don’t find people in lfg isn’t the lack of soloq but because the lack of healers. People called me crazy
And nobody is saying otherwise? I know that my positioning is bad, that I tunnelvision on my skill bar and party frames too much, that I don’t avoid enough cc and often either sit on my cc or wasting it. Could improve all that, doesn’t change the fact that healer MMR is a trainwreck right now or that healer balance gets neglected (while arms gets a last minute buff) and that healers have every right to complain about that.
previous expansion aka shadowlands season 3 and onwards had massive ammount of complaints and it was all related the atrocious balance there was, when everything were viable in s2 and then it went complete opposite into the hpriest outlaw and whatnot and hpriest kinda were the only healer just like hpaladin is now
And I am not disagreeing. I’m literally only posting on this thread because I also play healer classes
But believe it or not, Shadowlands had a lot more players than Dragonflight, with less healer complaints.
Because all of a sudden everybody is given an instant queue game mode for healers, which is the biggest bait in the universe because the amount of effort you need to put in isn’t comparable at all to playing with people you know.
But you know what the deadly closed circle is?
Healers get to heal bad players > Healers lose and get frustrated > Some healers quit healing Shuffle > Less healers causes bigger differences between the 2 healers’s MMR in Shuffle > Healers with positive scores such as 4-2 and 5-1 get nothing because they won a lobby against a lower rated healer > Even more healers quit healing Shuffle > repeat
You can give me 500 conquest per win, a bunch of mounts, buy me a mansion in real life, it’s not worth the stress caused by these people
So the question remains - what rewards do you want so you can suffer quing a game mode? 
level hpaladin so when you get it ready there comes mw buffs and completely changes everything again because it will be overtuned as hell and then level mw
i dont know why anyone would even heal shuffle on its current state tho
It’s hard to believe when I look at google trends to be honest. It might feel like that because there was no Shuffle but I highly doubt that (have only played the first 2-3 months and stopped playing after queuing into condemn spammers, sub oneshotters, hpals and boosters every game). The thing is, when you mess up the first few months of an xpac people will decide that the game is trash and move on. Fixing the issues won’t bring these people back, you need to add something big to bring them back (at least a major patch, better an expansion).
That’s why they need to fix the mode because after all it’s the most played mode and a good Shuffle implementation would benefit 2v2, 3v3 and PvP as a whole (and the opposite is also true…).
What if Bobby would gift you a yacht? 
I like it for improving because it matches me against people who are on my level (or should do that at least) but other than that I hate it. It’s unfun, gives me anxiety and puts me into a bad mood.
Sounds like I didn’t miss much (except for S2 which I’ve heard was super inflated but I also missed the S1 DF Shuffle inflation because I’ve only played for a few days in the beginning 
).
I don’t mid MS effects i just think classes with it should do considerably less damage than those without
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man i dont even know if you are really a clown or just pretend to be so blinded and delusional just stop trying to bait people into useless arguments all the time with your shuffle bs and check pvp participation page open on 2nd monitor 10x times
No one qs shuff as healer:
- Healers were always in the minority compared to dps and it is logical. There are a lot of dps players who dont even touch shuffle same applies to healers and it could have many reasons meaning that a minority within a minority of healers dont even q up to begin with no matter how good/bad healing shuffle is.
- The system is built upon punishing healers slightly more than dps when someone sucks in your lobby
- Winning a shuffle doesnt necessarily always mean you gain mmr and might even lose it. And in worst case even lose CR for going 3-3
- Dampening spikes up quite high but is needed due to again healers being too powerful and able to drag games out way too long. It might be unfun however is needed for the game to end otherwise every round would go 6-7+ mins or until a healer is oom.
Hope i explained it to you well enough