The new storyline was excellent! | SPOILERS

Lore Story
21

Seem? Has there been ANY part of the Horde campaign that succeeded?
The only accomplishment the faction has reached, is to mount up internal dissent with every new decision and plot.

It’s interesting, because the Alliance is following the diametrically opposed path with EVERYTHING they’ve done.
Not only they succeed, but do so reaching even more cohesion even at times when it doesn’t make sense for them to do so (Literally nobody flinched when Umbric created a Void Abomination with fallen bones and souls? Like zero?).

For a narrative that is supposed to sell engaging faction conflict stories for both sides (with all those ads about picking a side, etc.), one wonders who the hell thought a great idea to create a story about Horde players having to put up with random stupid and evil actions, be told to feel bad about them, and fail on every front while at it.

I mean, this just sounds a tiiiny bit as if this story was an Alliance exclusive thing, while the Horde are just playing the “cartoon bad guys” for them.

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22

“Friend” is a preferable term.

We are very open minded, you see :heart:

See, we have Greymane, we can’t lose.

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23

You become boring with this “Alliance as main protagonist”. So far, from what I see, Horde does things and Alliance reacts to them.
Let’s see: Horde attacks NE - reason **** logic. Alliance retaliates at Lordaeron.
Horde starts negotiations with Zandalar - Alliance remembers about Kul Tiras.
Horde attacks Boralus - Alliance attacks Dazar’alor.

Where is this “everything is done for Alliance”? When in entire Wow history was done something (anything) for Alliance first?

From what I see here in this forum, you and Erevien and all “Baine and Soyfang are traitors” peple like the “cartoon bad guy” stance. To all hints that Blizzard tried to remake Horde as “we are savage, but we have honor”, you responded with “**** honor - we want to kill Alliance, not to make peace”.

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24

They don’t want to remake the horde. They just scapegoat our last iconic character standing, to get turned into a red alliance, minus the protagonist spotlight with all the plot nukes the real alliance has as leaders. Meaning, getting kicked back into classic wow status of having below zero relevance for the plot.

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27

When a faction war story, that is supposed to bring plots for both sides, has the Alliance side triumphant and working cohesive on every front, while the Horde is consistently portrayed in the exact opposite.

Victories brought with means that further galvanise the faction and that are almost automatically compensated or countered in one way or another. Plots and stories that fail against the Alliance and, splint or divide the faction.

This isn’t having two stories. This is having one side being the cartoon villain for the protagonist to roll over and defeat.

No.
Can’t speak for everyone, but i rather have stories that develop positively the faction and its races while keeping the traits that made them popular in place.
Even monstrous races deserve positive attention in the long run.

And characters like Baine, or Saurfang, that further plots that tie or lay contingencies to make the faction subordinate to whatever values or story the opposing faction considers “valid”, will obviously be seen negatively.

If we are to have a war story, I don’t want characters that tell me that I’m wrong for having a war story.
If the Alliance is comfortably moving around vindicated while killing Horde, Horde players are entitled to have the same kind of story without having someone saying they should feel bad about it.
It really is that simple.

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28

We are not having a story for both sides. We are having a story were the protagonists faceroll the bad guys for being portrayed bad without even asking for it. This plot is one sided and reminds me of pre school moralizing rather than an actual story.

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29

Funny how the Alliance seemed completely fine with twisting souls out of the void or dooming archaeologists to have theirs ripped from their bodies, but the Horde cant cope with having a single Kul Tiran that swore to exterminate orcs, brainwashed to kill the head of his nation.

Had the Horde done half as much Umbric did in Zuldazar…:roll_eyes:

That’s one of the points I made. It all seems awfully onesided. And they are not even bothering to hide it.

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30

It’s funny, being accused of saying things I never have.

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31

Not said you did. I was referring to the fact that the story itself (and the writers), gloss over stuff like that for the Alliance, while emphasising them for the Horde.

It further indicates what I said earlier.

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It only indicates developers’ desire for this conflict to actually be a morally grey one.

It’s a good thing that the Alliance is doing shady stuff.

Not because “if we do it, it’s fine” but since we are doing stuff like that, it actually becomes morally grey.

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33

Wow target age was lowered during Wow life. And now I think the target age for Wow player is around 12 (if not lower). So they cannot get from boundaries of fairy tales. So, aggressors are bad guys. Yes, you are bad guys, because you want and like to be aggressive. DNA of Horde is to be aggressive. I remember Vanilla where orcs attacked NE, forsaken attacked humans, tauren attacked dwarves.

So yes, you are bad guys.

34

That’s great. Feel better about yourself yet with your moralizing attempts?

35

If they gave both events the same reaction I’d agree on that. But they don’t.

The Horde raising Derek risks an open rebellion and the Tauren chieftain going out his way to free him, while also killing Horde soldiers. Transmits a negative image.

The Alliance uses the Void, to twist souls or doom them to a living hell, and nobody bats an eye. Not Anduin, not Velen, not even Turalyon or the Lightforged.
Transmits a neutral image. Said events weren’t relevant or didn’t matter.

That’s what I’m talking about.
Horde actions are judged and have their most negative aspect highlighted, to the point it even sours victories.
The Alliance strolls around with none of this. And even has their worst actions vindicated or justified retroactively and down the line.

Disparity regarding this sort of storytelling isn’t selling moral greyness. It’s about a protagonist that has everything going as planned, while the cartoon villain tries and fails at everything it does.
This is the coyote and the roadrunner.

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36

No, I am sad for the fact that devs lowered so much the stakes. So instead of channeling your anger on Alliance players, you should do it against the main aggressors here.

37

Zarao, I hate the way Sylvanas and the Horde are depicted because I used to love the Horde.

I HATE the fact that the Horde is turned into dumb cartoon villains.

I’d really like to enjoy myself playing the Horde, I don’t like being showered with “you’re evil!” messages left and right either.

I used to main the Horde, while it actually felt like FACTIONS, not “good vs bad”.

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38

This is the rare occassion where one of your sentences actually resonates so much that it makes me agree with you. How rare.

I feel myself constantly reminded of what Ion said before in a statement, which pretty much was: “Wait and see! plz.” and thus I constantly feel simply deterred.

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39

This has nothing to do with your argument, but I hope this throws a light regarding how son people think: that’s the reason certain people dislike Baine and Saurfang.

They are the ones that keep telling players that they should feel bad about this story. They are the characters that go against a narrative that was supposedly sold as “You’ll have an engaging faction war story and feel motivated about it”.

They are the characters that take punctual acts of evil, or even simple acts of moral greyness, and use them as a pivot around which the story turns from “You are fighting a faction war”, to “You are the bad guy of the Alliance faction war story”.

Writers take the Horde down the villainous path (Teldrassil), and then proceeds to insert characters to support it.
Even in occasions where it’s not needed nor doesn’t make sense (Derek or Void torture…)
And to that, people easily revert to frame those characters that exacerbate said train of thought.

Players don’t want to be moralised in a story they are supposed to be enjoying.

If you are to sell me a war story of moral greyness, spare me the moralising of my actions and the characters that boycott it.

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40

You might remember my rant about my Barbie Paladin in a Mistweaver Nyan thread or whatever her name was.

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41

I don’t find the BfA storyline good at all. Ruined characterisation, painfully obvious “twists”, cliche characters and deus ex machina thrown in here and there when someone has been painted into a corner.

I’m not that impressed to be honest, but I haven’t been impressed with the story telling at all in BfA from the get-go. The very base of the story stands horde bad for reasons. And any story build on such a weak base, is bound to go in a bad direction.

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42

Great quests. Kill 10 mobs, kill 15 mobs, kill 15 mobs, kill another 140 mobs. Oh, it’s a trap, let’s get back.

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