Agree to disagree then.
Because I think that was one of the worst things.
So?
I just don’t have that kind of mindset.
I care about MY things. Not what someone else has or how they got it.
If I like the look of something, that’s enough. I don’t care if it’s a rare or common item; I will use it.
No. Because I’ve also been advocating for making world content part of the ‘the big 4’.
Which would mean world content would have to have more ‘advancement’ and thus more of a challenge to parts of it.
Anyway; if I didn’t say something, don’t say ‘I implied it’. I said what I said and there’s not any other spin on that.
And that is fine. It’s still obtainable.
The challenge just lies elsewhere (drop chance vs difficulty).
Well, again; I don’t share that mindset and I cannot agree with that stance.
I think it’s silly and petty to feel like that.
part of the mystique of items in game is what makes them special, having an item that is not owned by literally every character in game makes it actually mean something, once its something that can just be picked up by anything it literally means nothing.
i dont think its petty at all for there to be some kind of expectation of equal effort for everyone, if i spent months working towards something and then they just go ahead and make it freely availabl easily to everyone then i think its perfectly natural to felt a bit hard done by on that,
it just seems like you are way too opinionated and seem to not care about anyone elses opinion, i can understand where you are coming from and why you might think the way that you do about these things but im just trying to offer a counter argument, your response to that is that you dont care about anyone elses opinions on it and you only care about your things and such then i cant really help you and there is no reason to discuss this anymore,
the simple fact of the matter is that there is more people in this game than just you, if there is content you refuse to take part in for whatever reason (the reason really doesnt matter) then you are not eligable for the rewards that come from that content, it would be like me sitting in a major city all day and playing the AH and then complaining that i dont have access to all of the best raid gear, if i want the raid gear then i should have to raid to unlock it, the same goes for all of the apearances and mounts/pets and such, its really simple.
also, how exactly would they go about making world content something that is actually a challenge without it being something that just literally takes all day to do? a lot of complaints from people that do not raid or do higher level dungeons is that they dont have the time to play after work or because of family commitments. so how exactly would they allow for world content to be much more challenging without then causing the exact same issues,
also what kind of changes would you expect to world content in order to make it more challenging, because the only options are to just make things scale even higher, which doesnt really solve anything, it just means the most boring content in the game is just even more monotonous and boring but now has arbitrary challenge to it as well.
especially when there are people that enjoy playing alts, is there really any world where you could make world quests something that people would have to spend the majority of their day to get complete?
Again, you’re using that ‘easily available’ argument, but that was NEVER claimed.
No, it doesn’t have to be easy. Just like that example with mythic raid mounts…
Getting a 1% mount on a weekly lock-out is NOT easy. It takes time and dedication.
Thinking a few pixels in a game makes you special, is imo dumb. You can have that opinion, no problem, but why should I ‘respect’ it when I think it’s a dumb stance?
No that wasn’t what I said. You are AGAIN claiming I said things that I didn’t say.
I said I don’t care about what others have and how they go it.
Well, we have opposing mindsets on this issue. So yeah, it’s probably useless to discuss this because you will never agree with me and I will never agree with you. Not on this topic.
Sure. But again; it would be nice if there were alternatives.
Because not everyone enjoys the same content.
That’s all I was saying to begin with.
That’s up to the devs. And it taking all day is fine, if that is what it takes to ‘get to the top’.
Just like in the ‘big 3’ content right now; the more you put in it, the more you get out of it. And it becomes more and more difficult. That would be fine if that was the case with world content as well, imo.
Just to be clear: It’s only your opinion that it’s ‘the most boring’.
And it shows that you’re not creative and a bit narrowminded and set in your ways.
There’s plenty of ways they could do it (EDIT: see below for examples).
Anyway; all the 4 endgame content types should have their own seperate progression. So if you don’t like world content, there’s NO reason you’d have to do it. So that takes away your fear of ‘having to do ‘boring’ content’.
Yes. There’s plenty of ways. And to be clear: WQs are just 1 TYPE of world content.
There’s much more they can do within the ‘setting of the world’.
Here’s just a few from the top of my head:
Phasing. You reach a certain ‘threshold’ the world content changes for you and becomes different/harder.
Scenario based encounters throughout the world. Their difficulty could range from ‘normal to mythic’. You unlock higher difficulties through play/achievs etc.
Like in the old days have certain areas within zones full of elites that either require grouping or you having better gear to solo them.
Mythic storylines: Special storyline quests that get harder as the storyline progresses. Totally optional (could be sidequest type storylines -unique content in that case- or following the main storyline but just more difficult -repeating exisiting content but on a higher difficulty- ).
Solo world bosses. Little instanced parts of the world where you can have a ‘mage tower’ type difficult enounter with nice rewards.
I’m sure the devs, who do this sort of thing for a job, can come up with many more ways.
you are literally cutting into your own argument here, why should anyone care about what your opinion is if you are completely unwilling to respect the fact that people can disagree with you.
but there shouldnt need to be alternatives, they put these rewards into the game as a reward for completing specific content, if you dont like that content and dont take part in it then you dont gain access to the rewards, that shouldnt be a problem. that may be something you dont like or disagree with but its been in the game since vanilla, why would they change it now.
there is a reason that they add things as rewards for specific content, because its adds some kind of prestige to them for the people that are putting in the effort to unlock them, thats why there are also things that are feats of strength that have been completely removed from the game,
mage tower being a good example of that, i know a few people that went out of their way to earn all 36 of the mage tower appearances for all specs, they put that effort in, it would be unfair if they then just made them accessable for everyone who didnt put in that effort, it just breeds a mindset within the playerbase that its never worth trying to do anything to unlock stuff if its just going to be made accessable at a later date without having to put in the effort. which in turn will mean that less effort gets put into creating the content as a whole because no one is playing it.
considering that half of your responses are “agree to disagree” its a bit difficult for you to claim that other people are narrowminded but sure why not.
considering that there are unlocks and that the most efficient ways for things to be done, like making gold and farming anima is through world quests then yes there is always going to be a reason to get it done.
already exists. there is areas in pretty much every zone that has elites now in SL that at least from the start of the expansion did require grouping. maybe not so much since people are geared up more.
it would make much more sense to just have something similar to what the mage tower was for instanced challenges rather than building them into the world randomly.
this would be difficult to manage correctly because by its very difinition if something is made “harder” the nit will have to offer higher rewards meaning that people who might not be interested might feel forced to do it because the rewards are greater, like playing with warmode for the entirety of BFA because the extra AP was too much to give up on.
No, you are misrepresenting what I said.
I respect you have a different opinion.
I simply don’t respect THAT OPINION ITSELF.
Big difference.
I disagree.
Because that is the right thing to do. Imo.
Which is another stupid thing they’ve done.
They shouldn’t remove content. Ever.
A BAD example, yeah. They shouldn’t have removed that content.
Why? It’s just a game and it’s just looks.
How greedy and selfish of a stance is that?
Having a different opinion isn’t narrowminded perse. And me saying ‘agree to disagree’ is simply a way to avoid going around in circles. Because we will simply never agree on some matters. Which is fine, but I’d rather not waste time on discussing it then.
Stuff like that should be just as viable in every ‘endgame pillar’. Of course.
I disagree. It would be a nice ‘lure’ for people who like that sort of challenge.
And it wouldn’t be ‘randomly’. It would of course fit the theme of a zone or area and such.
That’s tough then. People don’t need that mindset.
I never turned on Warmode. And I won’t. Ever. Even if they gave a million gold extra for every WQ. I’m not turning it on.
Besides, that wouldn’t happen because they way I envision it; it would have its own seperate progression. That world content gear wouldn’t mean anything in a raid. So raiders wouldn’t need to do world content at all.
there is basically 0 difference between them two things there, people are respecting that you have a different opinion and respecting your opinion while disagreeing with you, it just makes it incredibly difficult to actually have a conversation when you are unwilling to have even a shred of respect for other people.
and its your right as a human to be wrong on that.
when this content was added into the game they told us from the get go that it would be timed content and you had to earn it before it was removed, so people had a year+ to get to it, if you didnt do it in that time then its your own fault for now having it complete. i get that it can be frustrating for those who didnt play when the content was in the game but thats just how life works sometimes.
the problem is though people do have that mindset and thats something that will literally never change, so that needs to be taken into account when they put these kinds of systems into the game,
take conduit energy and other such things, people were very upset about it because it means that its making the game un fun for them and removing their ability to actually play the game the way they want to, thankfully they are removing it again so its not really worth arguing about anymore, but its most likely the worst system they have ever introduced to the game, because there was absolutely no upside to it, similar to locking covenants, but it just lead to things being overly restrictive and unfun.
If that’s what you think, you don’t understand things very well.
Sorry. This is a ‘you’ problem.
Loooool. Have you ever seen some of the replies I get?
Respect. LOLOLOLOL.
No. Just no.
There are some who show respect and act nicely, sure, but the ones who usually reply are horrible people who don’t respect anything that isn’t ‘their thing’.
I said nothing about ‘people’.
I said I have no respect for an opinion I fundamentally disagree with.
Stop equating with ‘not liking something’ to ‘not liking someone’.
That’s the same thing that happens a lot irl: Someone says ‘I think football is stupid’ and then someone else replies ‘no, you are stupid’. Which is such an asinine way of responding. Someone is saying something about something. Stop making it personal.
That’s basically what you’re doing here. And there’s no need for it.
And it’s your right as a human to be wrong on THAT.
But this is a game. For fun.
I think removing content is just wrong. It’s dumb.
It shouldn’t happen.
There are ways of making those rewards still rare. Take the mage tower for instance… What if, instead of outright removing it Blizzard left the mage tower open for people to do, but instead of automatically unlocking the reward when you finish the encounter, they could make it into a 1% dropchance.
The challenge then shifts. Someone who wants that look will still have to put the work in, maybe even a LOT more work than they would have originally have to do.
Farming currency to enter the place would still be a thing, so that’d be part of the work needed to be done.
Heck, they could even add ‘timewalking-esque’ tech to it and make the encounters still somewhat of a challenge. But the rewards would still be obtainable, albeit rare and hard to get.
There’s a world of options between ‘removing it’ and ‘giving it out for free to everyone’.
This was just one example from the top of my head.
I’d say that was corruption. But to each their own.
I get that some things cause problems for other players, but I just think that some people are really too rigid in their ways for their own good. Some of those practices trickle down and affect people who don’t want to be involved with all that. Sadly it happens.
So to me the ‘evil’ of being restrictive is a necessary evil, because it limits how much that kind of mindset can influence others. Harsh, but that’s the way I feel.
Luckily for ‘meta gamers’ and ‘min-maxers’ I am not in charge of this game or have any say in the matter of its development.
It’s just a problem with a playerbase as diverse as WoW’s is. Some people’s fun will ruin or diminish the fun of others.
to be completely fair you outright said you refuse to respect peoples opinions, so you cant really have it both ways, i am at least trying to understand your opinion and i respect that you a have a differing opinion to me.
its my right to be wrong on saying that people are allowed to be wrong? so you are saying that people are not allowed to be wrong.
thats just the lifecycle of basically any game, when they released games like command and conquor the story for previous iterations of the game is outdated and finished, its not like they are going out of their way to make sure everyone plays all of the games through out the series, once a game is done or content is finished its basically dead and burried, there are a lot of games out there that once they release a new game they just outright turn the servers off for previous iterations of the game,
because it defeats the point of the mage tower existing to begin with, the entire point was to give a challenge to people in order to earn the mogs and rewards, once its old content you out scale it meaning it goes from a challenge to a one shot, and yes there is scaling tech, but the scaling tech is always terrible and means that some classes just have an easy time and others have a near impossible time, unless you go out of your way to farm through old content and gather gear that wouldnt need to scale, similar to what happened with challenge mode dungeons in mop
they put something into the game as timed content, made it fully known to the community that the content would be in for the expansion and would then be gone forever, if you didnt put in the effort to get it done when it was there, then you dont deserve that reward, its as simple as that, you didnt earn it, so you dont deserve it. dont get me wrong i would love to be able to go back and get some because i play a different character now than i did in legion, but i also accept that i just cant,
yeah corruption wasnt great but at least it added something to the game, the only thing that conduit energy does is remove fun, and make it impossible to acrtively play multiple specs if thats what you want to do,
as someone who raids tuesday and thursday and then does dungeons most other evenings, i would need to have a minimum of of like 30 conduit energy in order to actually be able to play the specs i want to in the content im playing, and i would need ot get a fresh amount of 30 each week which doesnt happen, so im stuck just being unable to effectively play my class/spec
corruptions didnt ever stop you from being able to play certain classes specs, if you didnt get the “correct” things then you still at least had something, and then with a vendor you could pick what you wanted, if you had to much then you could cleanse it, it was manageable, but conduit energy is only restrictive, there is absolutely 0 positive feedback about conduit energy, thats why its the worst thing ever added to the game.
and i know you will just disagree with it but im going to say it anyway, you have said repeatedly that you only really take part in world content, so there is no pressure for you to play in a specific way, you can just pick whatever you want and play the way you want to, for people that are doing content that requires certain specs to perform at the best you can it actually matters that there are restrictive mechanics in the game that just outright ruin fun for no reason.
so for example, you would be able to play BM hunter with which ever covenant you want and which ever soulbind you want because maximising your damage for whatever you are doing is generally less important and no neccesary to complete the world content. but for someone like me being locked into a specific covenant and being lock on conduit energy means that there are just certain times i outright cant do what i want and thats when the game becomes un-fun.
when the restrictions are lifted it means that i can change to what i want and use different things for different content making the game a much better place, where as literally nothing changes for you, you have already picked the specific covenant you want, rather than feeling forced into one you didnt really like because it was best, and you can just continue to play like no change was made,
so restricting players for the sake of the casual playerbase who it has absolutely 0 effect on in the first place is one of the stupidest decisions blizzard has ever made and its the reason that they are losing players in droves right now. well that and the lawsuit
and thats something that blizzard have even said themselves, they admitted in the blue posts they released that they should have made these changes a year ago at least, especially with conduit energy, so they are even themselves saying that they made a massive mistake and are making the necessary changes
They are 2 totally seperate things.
So I CAN have it both ways. That’s how it works.
Stoooop. Your ‘semi-want-to-be-funny-and-smart’ comeback isn’t funny or smart.
You think I’m wrong. Fine. I don’t care.
I think I’m right.
That’s something totally different than a live game such as an mmorpg.
Yeah. And once that expansion was over the ‘challenge’ changes to something else.
How is that a problem?
Yeah that was the case in the mage tower ANYWAY.
So that shouldn’t matter.
Yes and I’m telling you that it is my opinion that that is wrong.
And a bad way to run a live game.
It’s how I feel about it. Feel free to disagree. I don’t care.
What it added was bad. It actively made the game worse.
So imo it’s worse. But again; we don’t need to agree on this.
And I get that. I’m not denying that either.
It wasn’t even among the topics we were discussing.
I get that its bad for some players.
I personally just don’t mind them restricting ‘meta-minded’ people, because I think the ‘meta’ is just about the biggest problem in gaming today.
You don’t have to explain again how it effects you and like-minded people. I get it.
I just don’t agree that that is worse than the alternative. I just don’t.
I doubt they are sincere. They’re just doing damage control.
But they are making a new mistake: They’re mainly changing things for people who participate in ‘the big 3’. They’re STILL not catering enough to those players who like other stuff. This has been a thing mainly in Shadowlands and it’s been a problem for many.
In Legion and in BfA at least we ‘had plenty of stuff we could do’.
because it was designed to be engaged in a specific way, and if people just dont do it then thats up to them, it would be like expecting all of the raids and dungeons in the game to still be viable for end game progression, its more than likely never going to happen, if you want to get stuff done you should do it when its in the game, rather than waiting untill afterwards and complaining about it.
by the end of the expansion it was fairly easy to get most of them done because you could easily outscale it with gear, the scaling tech wouldnt allow for that because you would be scaled to a specific item level, and unfortuantely there are a lot of casual players in the game that would just not be good enough to get it done. and the mage tower was never scaled, i remember specifically that i did it at 880 item level about 2 or 3 weeks afer it released on my druid which i was playing at the time, but the analytics shown on wowhead suggested that the average item level for completion acorss the playerbase for the majority of classes was closer to 915-920 meaning that a lot of players had to wait untill they outscaled it because they couldnt do it otherwise.
and there you go with not caring about the opinions of other people again, the fact of the matter is there will always be timed content in games, thats how live server games have always been run, or am i mistaken in believing that once an expansion finishes all of its content is essentially dead, sure it would be nice to have certain aspects of expansions back, like how they are bringing back legion M+ with the timewalking event, but some content should just be left as it was,
as i have mentioend before if they put it back in and make it earnable now, it will either be scaled to a point that most players cant do it, or scaled to a point that its a walk in the park and everyone can get it, meaning that it is no longer prestigious and basically means nothing.
it very much is a part oh the topics we are discussing because its the exact reeasoning behind me believing that conduit energy is the worst system ever put into the game, maybe if you actually read what i typed properly you would have seen that.
but its not just people that are playing to the “meta” that are being restricted, warlock is by no means a “meta” spec in dungeons and hasnt been since legion really, but i still like to be able to play destro demo and affliction, i enjoy all 3 specs which is why i play warlock, but i cant do that with conduit energy in the game because i run out and therefore have to play without using the correct conduits, meaning that im a detrement to my team.
thats because the game has a big 3, the other stuff is just filler content that doesnt mean anyhting and never really has meant anything. i know this is maybe an unpopular opinion, but generally the only people that play primarily world content are people that are just not that good at the game and dont want people getting upset with them, from my experience at least, there isnt really much less in the way of world content this expansion than there was last time round, the main difference being that there is a few less zones overall,
most of the stuff in teh game that you could do was instance content, in bfa at least, considering that most of it was dungeons, raid, PvP, islands, warfronts, and world content,
most of that is instanced and therefore doesnt fall under the umbrella of world content, there isnt that much more than is available in shadowlands but people tend ot just forget about or intentionally leave out stuff they dont like.
That’s silly reasoning.
So you’re against people farming old raids for gear too then, I suppose?
Not even remotely the same. There is no progression involved with the mage tower. Just an appearance for a weapon.
Easily is subjective. Like I said: I don’t participate in ‘the big 3’ so my gear wasn’t that high that I could ‘easily’ do it. So it was an unfair system then?
But at least they would have THE OPTION.
Which is better than no option at all.
You are wrong in believing that.
For many players raids become ‘viable and doable’ only after it seizer to be ‘current content’. For instance.
I only agree with that if the content was universally hated. THEN it should be left as it was.
But that was not the case with the mage tower at all.
And that would be fine, imo. Because I don’t believe that it will mean nothing. It’s an appearance. That’s all. That’s all it means. A look.
Anway, either of those options would be fine. Better than not having the option at all.
Maybe if you wouldn’t act so passive aggressive, I would be more receptive to reading your posts.
Why are we even discussing this? They’re removing it.
Wowwwww talk about arrogance.
I don’t know about others, I can only speak for myself, but what you’re saying there is not true for me. I like it because I like it. I COULD totally do raids and such (I HAVE), but I don’t want to. I don’t like them.
Well yeah. THAT exactly is one of my main issues with Shadowlands.
I feel screwed over by Blizzard in that regard.
well if people were trying to farm old raids for something that is still important today then yeah it would be a problem, but old raid farming is just something that happens, if blizz outright removed all the old raids and then people were whining for everything to get brought back even though they knew it would be timed content then sure i would have the same issue.
the gear that dropped for the open world and from vendors for currency was available at like 910-920 or something according to a quick wowhead search i just did, the average item level for people that compelted the mage tower was 910-920, so yes i think that easy was the perfect word to use.
debatable, they put that content in with the intention of it being timed content, if you really cared that much about it, then you had well over a year to get it done when it was there, if you chose not to then its on you.
okay so its not dead for mog farmers, but the content is no longer viable for anything else, meaning its essentially dead.
nothing in wow is every universally hated, there are always some people for whatever reason that like some things, like im sure there are some idiots that think conduit energy was a good system, and i know for a fact that there are some people that enjoyed the cancer that was titanforging.
as i have mentioned before, it is perfectly okay for some things to not be in game, it adds prestige and makes it mean something, the same reason that tier 3 raid gear goes for millions on gold on the black market auction house, people care about it because its rare and no longer obtainable, if they added these mogs back into the game they would soon begin to mean nothing as it would just be a matter of going in as an over scaled character and it most likely being easy, compared to before, just let the mogs that existed actually mean something and dont just make them abundant and make them lose all prestige.
take the bear form that druids got, i legitimately see that as something that means someone is a reasonably good player, and that has failed to trick me just yet, the vast majority of the time i see a bear using the wearbear form i have seen a decent player using it, but if they added it back in and made it universally available it would generally mean anyone could most likely get it, and that bear form would mean absolutely nothing from then on.
because some people are still too stupid to understand how much of a detrement it was to the game.
im sorry am i not allowed to share my own opinion on something?
so you agree that there isnt less than before and yet you are still screwed over, feel free to explain that one?
That’s flawed thinking. That would only be true for 1 spec. And yeah, I have my BM mage tower look.
However, getting good enough gear for my other specs didn’t work out. So yeah. It was a flawed system that should have just stayed in the game. Making it a very rare drop instead would have been fine. Hell, put a weekly lockout on it for all I care, so it would have the same ‘attempt frequency’ as an old raid.
Just having that option would be awesome.
And as I have mentioned before, I disagree with that.
Things should not be removed. Period.
So end of discussion then? Because we will never agree on this.
Oh you are. I didn’t say you’re not.
You’re just very very arrogant and basically a horrible human being for having that opinion. If you can live with that; good for you.
My bad. Misread that.
Thought you said there is less.
Which there is. But not only that, in 9.0 WHAT was there, was mostly meaningless and unrewarding. As opposed to world content in Legion and BfA (BfA had already seen a reduction in those things, but it was still at an acceptable level. That changed in Shadowlands). Another one of those horrible changes brought forth by whiny, greedy tryhards.
oh no i gave my opinion on pixels that exist in a video game, i must be a horrible human being, you talk about how you hate raiding and other content all the time, i have never said you are a horrible human being for disliking something i enjoy, you really need to sort out your priorities if thats how you will take that kind of thing… seriously.
you said world content was meaningless you are a horrible human being.
offering an opinion on a type of content and saying that i dont like it doesnt mean im elitist, generally after the first week or so of an expansion, or once other content like raids are released, or even mythic dungeons are available for that matter the majority of the world content is outscaled, this then means that ourside of farming world quests for anima or gold there is no reason to do world content, you dont really gain anything from doing it, thatss why i said its meaningless, thats not being elitist, its just stating a fact, i cant help it if there are people out there that refuse to take part in the other content in the game, and the fact that they actively refuse to take part in that content doesnt mean all of a sudden its worth something to the game as a whole, to them sure, it might be worth something, but looking at the game as a whole it still fits into the exact same box that it already was.
okay so its only okay for you to say certain things thats good to know, if i say that world content is meaningless and offer an opinion with actually reasoning behind why thats the case then im a horrible human being, but if you say the same thing its perfectly fine, good to know.
its also worth pointing out that you said that all of “those horrible changes” that are brought into the game because of what im assuming you mean is elitists, even though they generally hate a lot of these changes as much if not more than you and are hoping that they are changed or removed.
this is a very popular miss conception within the community that the game is designed around the top end of raiding/pvp when its really not the case, within them circless its described as “the mythic tax” because its content they are forced to do in order to compete that they hate and would rather not do, so its worse for them than it is for anyone else, considering as well that they generally have to do it on multiple characters in order to compete at the level they do.
im here triyng to have a conversation and give genuine reasons for these things to happen or to not be liked and generally just get the response that “this should change because i dont like it” without any real explanation on why it should be changed or how they could change it, and then anytime i try and call out that you are just not really taking part in the conversation properly or i make a joke to prove a point im considered a troll, i pointed out the massive hypocrisy that you are willing to call the world content in BFA meaningless and yet considered me a “horrible human being” for doing the same thing and im a troll. its absolutely ridiculous
