Zek’vir “??” is a pure dps check. The mechanics are extremly simple, nothing compared to Mage Tower, but if you can’t kill the eggs fast enough, you are done. You should be able to beat him comfortably at item level 610 or higher as Unholy. If you can’t do it, it’s a skill issue.
Blood won’t make it easier btw.
I need more popcorn for this thread, cause y’all sure keep delivering.
While I agree, Zek’vir and esp ?? do require people to understand their class and /or race slightly better that the average bear does. Skill and Practice issue, yes, but also not as obvious to most players what their class specific counters are.
For example if you don´t know that as a lock you can preplace your DC and then use SB+DC to dispel the enfeebling roots, you´re basically already done for, unless your´re a (DI) dwarf that can get out of it just that one time with their racial. The “issue” beint that no PvE player normally uses theid SB+DC to dispell roots, that´s something much more commonly found in PvP encounters. So it does force people to look over the edge of their plate a little bit, not to the degree MT did, but simultaneously more than most M+ encoutners do 
Same goes for Mage tower. Agatha, Sigryn and Xylem are all simple encounters. Kruul wasnt anything out of the ordinary either mechanically. So at least half of the fights can be regarded simple and the only thing that screw with you is the tuning (and even there fights become a flat out joke on another spec like Sigyrn was for Rets).
Even on release day in legion fights like Sigryn were a massive lol.
You can check youtube and see if it helps. Just on first glance there was a 600 ilvl frost who did solo ?? around a week ago.
no, it’s not and it’s delusional to think that. You are 5 people in m+, and you need to all play correctly, one-two fails at the same time and the group is wiped and the key mostly bricked (depends).
In a Delve you have unlimited time, you can pull each pack with full CDs ready if you like and all responsibility is just on you. The content is incomparable and until they make it more or less equal challenge it should not give the same reward…
From experience delvers usually keep delving forever and have no intrest in m+ at all so i really see no issue at all, maybe your problem is not with delvers but having to high expectations from others, or perhaps its time to socialize and get some friends to play with rather then randoms.
the problem is if Delve would reward mythic gear without a challenge, every single m-pusher and m-raider would be forced to do the Delve content because if they don’t, they would fall behind all those who do, which means less chance of finding a group or getting into a progress raid group.
All that because Delve runners want something they don’t need doesn’t seem right to me, nor fair.
I think delve rewards are fine. It would be perfect if ?? Zekvir droped something like a maxed hero track weapon for your spec as a reward for the challenge and prep for next season.
As a guaranteed drop it wouldn’t also force other players to grind delves. They could do it once and then focus on their prefered game mode.
That sounds ok to me, I’d also not mind if bountiful Delve level 12 drops like 5 gilded crests. This means you would get how many per day? 15-20?
I have no issue with Delve players getting hero track gear, but I ain’t hero raider, and I don’t play keys under 10 anymore, so those who do still might have a problem with it for the same reason I mentioned in comparison to Mythic content.
I guess it’s fine just not fully upgrading your hero track gear. I mean yes it’s hero but realistically you can get 1 per week from vault and then maybe if you get a map which are very rare.
I do 4 delves per week on 2 chars that are still not fully hero geared and depending on rng maybe will never be.
Raiders don’t only get crests but they also get loot from bosses plus vault.
M+ you can just spam as many as your heart desires for hero gear.
So yes delves drop hero gear but they are way inferior to other content when it comes to gearing.
understand, but we have to think about it in the most abusive way because that’s what people doing end-game content will do, so it can’t reward full hero that easily because like that the normal difficulty raid and keys up to 8 would lose relevance and it would allow people to completely skip it.
maybe if they do such a thing late in the season, like now sounds like a good time, nobody would mind at this point I believe.
I mean yes that would be a problem but that would have a simple solution.
If Delvers want stronger gear cause they want the ability to outgear the delvs by only doing delvs then let them but make the gear loose stats in instance and raid. That way delv gear is for delvs and no raider or m+ player feels forced to participate.
Of course outside gear gets weaker in delvs too so no mythic raiders swoop in and collect achievements
you mean like pvp gear? That sounds good to me as well, but they would have to balance it on another layer, I don’t think they will do it, but yeah, I’d not mind if Delver in Delve gear had 800ilvl just in a Delve content I guess
I mean that way everyone would be happy
I’d argue that normal raids and keys up to 8 can only lose relevance to the same people irrespectively where their gear comes from.
It maybe will help the people that are very close to beating them to just do it after a few weeks of getting hero vault gear. So they will get a sense of progression during the season.
And for those that really struggle with normal raids and low keys it will do pretty much nothing.
you know how long it took before they did such a thing for PVP? Maybe they do it for delves as well, depending on what numbers they have on player activity. I’d not hold hopes though, they don’t care.
And with that i suppose that you also mean that m+ gear should scale down in raid and vice versa? And ofc. in pvp should one have the rare bis mythic raid item for pvp, and so on?
What is a delver btw? is there also such thing as a world quester, pet battler, transmogrunner?
Vast majority of the community who participate in endgame content including m+/raid does most of / all / more of these activities alltogether. Its all pixels in the same video game.
“m-pusher” and “m-raider” are two interely different things.
With the few exceptions of those who push really high keys, the latter mentioned above are generally superior skill-wise in pve content.
m-pusher by definition comes in many scales and levels - a m-raider does not, content is the same, and the difference between them is who completes the mythic raid the earliest.
a lot of people in this and similar thread who likes to mention themselves in the same sentences as mythic raiders and world firsters etc. because they are pushing their mediocre (or worse) m+ rating. there is nothing in a mythic raid the average m+ player -needs- either. but i guess it makes some bros in here feel better if they can call other players this and that to create som kind of narrative where they put themselves amongst the elite.
you and we are all “delvers” by default by the very definition in this thread, period. exactly how many players does delves and delves only? not many, its a side-game + and good luck trying to gear a toon exclusevly with delves gear - its doable, but it will take time, and with some bad luck you cant do it in the course of a season - gearing in m+ and raids is so much more effective.
As far as I can tell, at no point in this thread did anyone ever ask for myth track gear for delves, IIRC that was not even a discussion point until you presented it as a hypothetical in nteh closing passage of your initial reply to Illinen, and is as far as I can tell still something that primarily you alone are discussing… but I´m not going to reread the entire thread just to make sure I didn´t miss something, so please feel free to correct me if I´m wrong 
It’s a term for people who refuse to progress in ways other than solo. Pet battles and transmog don’t progress your character at all, so if anyone does just that, I don’t consider them wow players in the slightest.
I don’t understand this argument. Aren’t we all the same carbon-based organisms of the same ecosystem IRL?
no these are not different, some people just raid , gearing alts on different days, making more options for the progress group to pick a class from the pool. Some do just m+, for whatever reason, but the goal is the same. Gear up for the hardest content available and beat it.
two people did ask for mythic rewards for delves in this topic, and I believe this is the whole point of (not just this) thread, because people capped in delves (around 619) want more character progression (for whatever reason), therefore, they join keys above 7 that they are not capable of playing and don’t even want to play and ruining lower-tier m-pushers’ experience, so these players complain about them.
So I assumed the ideal desired solution for these unhappy delve runners is a bigger reward without being forced into group content, therefore I tried to explain why (in my humble opinion) is not possible to give mythic rewards for Delves. I picked Mythic, because they already getting the hero track. Maybe wrong logic on my part, or maybe a language barrier but that’s how I read these replies.