I understand you don’t like Cataclysm, or MoP, or whatever expansion but being that negative about it its just… sad.
Anyone remember the “Wall of NO” in 20xx? you are doing exactly the same as those people who didn’t want legacy servers. Think about it.
I want cataclysm, I want Wotlk servers for whoever wants to play wotlk in the future, I want new seasons in Vanilla, I probably will play MoP again when the time comes.
Remember what you had to endure from 2012 until that blizzcon when Vanilla was announced, you are doing exactly the same now.
You don’t get the fact that many players who hate this Cataclysm announcement don’t want to LOSE WotLK servers! That’s the problem here… they (Blizzard) don’t want to keep the WotLK servers!
I want WLK era servers so that the people who actually thinks that this is the best expansion ever can stay in it and be happy with their braindead AoE zerg-simulator for eternity.
Not that I am particularly hyped for Cataclysm at the minute. It has better end-game content. That’s about it. Otherwise the experience in Classic is becoming alarmingly similar to retail.
It’s a bit disingenuous to compare Cataclysm to Vanilla. People had been asking for Vanilla for over a decade, it was a huge moment when Classic got announced, something people had long been fighting for.
The polar opposite, Cataclysm is one of the most disliked expansions which marked the rapid decline of the game’s popularity, it was considered and still is considered one of the worst expansions, following what has widely been regarded as the best expansion.
Some people liked Cataclysm, sure, but don’t compare this to Vanilla. I hope big changes come with Cataclysm, it needs them.
Definitevely, No!
Many people are not negative at launch that… whining about ppl claiming not playing Cataclysm will not grant it high population. I think you are afraid of Cataclysm failure, if you where sure probably dont waste your time posting this.
People wanted legacy servers not only Vanilla and thats is everyone was fighting for since a long time, but the peak of that “fight” was middle-late WoD.
The demand was “progressive servers” and they included MoP even back in 2013 but of course all had to start since Vanilla.
What its disingenuous is thinking “Classic” its only Vanilla or only the first three expansions.
Maybe you did not play during Cataclysm or just skipped Cata and MoP but the “rapid decline of the game popularity” was not because of the game itself (ONLY) but because some other genre was peaking in popularity… maybe you heard about one of those games: League of Legends.
On by itself Cataclysm was Wotlk+ not only PEAKING wow subscribers in Cata Prepatch and 4.0.6 but managing only dipping down to 9.5 millions (From 12 mill peak) in just 1 Quarter after 9 months of Dragon Soul wich is totally normal.
Even MoP, wich btw was the expansion when the subs keep on the downward trend not Cata, there were a lot of people in an almost dead genre thanks to MOBAs.
And one other thing, saying Wotlk was regarded as the best expansion its stretching a bit. Now in phase 4 we can see how in Wotlk only Ulduar and ICC are considered good raids, 50% of the PvE content its meh, while on the other hand in Cataclysm you have the first raid tier with 2 +8 bosses raids and 1 “mini raid” (+ 1 tolbarad/wintergrasp) easy top 10 patches of all time. Then Firelands, again Top 3 raids of all time. The only raid considered “mid” its Dragon Soul and its not worse than ToC or Naxxramas.
So we have a “widely regarded as the best expansion” has only 2 good raid tiers (50% of them) but one of the WORST have only 1 not good tier and its better than the bad wotlk raids…
Then why its cata so hated? Not because of PvE content. Not because of PvP, Cata PvP is miles better than Wotlk (Even MoP PvP is way better than wotlk), side content maybe? Not really, with the new power level now you can go back and do old raids and farm transmog, so the expansion is not only raidlogg and log off.
Maybe its because they removed the talent tree and all the classes could do everything, oh wait that’s MoP, Cata still have talent trees. Then… because the new talent trees doesn’t allow for hybrid specs… Now in wotlk we have like maybe 1 or 2? hybrid specs and they are more like meme spec than anything else so that’s not why either.
Maybe its because when they started playing in wotlk, everything (And now still is) was easy to kill and ICC had a 30% buff so everyone and their grandma with a xbox controller could raid with a group of friends but, when cataclysm dropped, they couldn’t even do a single HC without wiping for 45 minutes straight in grim batol. Or when they tried to raid in 10 man couldn’t kill the Omnitron defense system and their guild disbanded.
What I’m trying to say (TLDR? is that the “is considered one of the worst expansion” is not actually true. Only ask anyone who played Cataclysm when it came out what they think about Chogall or Nefarian, or Firelands, or the New ZG and ZA. They will probably say that those patches were amazing, like in MoP throne of Thunder or the intemporal island.
I’m not really comparing with Vanilla, I’m comparing the people who, for years, copypasted the WALL OF NO ™ with the people now saying that because they don’t want Cataclysm (And they have classic era even) no one should be able to play Cataclysm.
The WALL OF NO ™ people, said that Vanilla was thrash and outdated, TBC was boring, Wotlk too easy and cata destroyed the old world and because of that no one should be able to play legacy/progressive servers, exactly what “No Cata” people is doing right now.
I don’t think you understood my post.
I’m not talking about someone who will not play Cataclysm, thats totally ok and fair I didnt play TBC that much, I’m talking about the 10000 post about “No cata plz” and comparing with the 2013 post about "No Legacy/progressive servers.
Show me one single example from 2013 of people wanting progressive servers, not classic. And why would they want progressive servers going to the then current (and very unpopular) Mists of Pandaria?
What you’re talking about is pure nonsense. People wanted Vanilla, nobody was fighting for re-progression servers, and certainly not Cataclysm in 2013 when Cataclysm was hated and considered the worst expansion, only surpassed by MOP in 2014 which was then considered worse than Cataclysm by many.
Based on what would you assume this? I literally just gave my take based on pure experience, I literally killed Deathwing on Heroic, had Rogue dagger set, did the dungeon mount achievements and the Tol Barad mounts, and was even part of the closed beta pre-launch giving feedback.
I played Cataclysm, I was also active on the forums at the time.
I’m going to start quoting the end because, even if what everything you said here was true (And it probably is) you seem to misremembering a lot of things.
Let’s start:
Ok. This is actually really hard because the old forums are lost in the void and really hard to find exactly those posts but you can still see the general sentiment about the Legacy servers movement reading comments in reddit from that time.
But before that, if you watch the OG big video where “You think you do, but you don’t” originated the question was: “Have you ever thought about adding servers of PREVIOUS EXPANSIONS as THEY were then?”
Not Vanilla, previous expansions (From WoD panel btw). Because the sentiment during WoD was than Cata and MoP were just better and WoW was boring (And btw in MoP a lot of people said that Cata were miles better too :D) and wanted to have some old expansions server like “Legacy or Progressions servers” almost like seasons starting from Vanilla all the way till MoP, at that time the last expansion.
Other proof that it was NOT only Vanilla:
I think I can’t post links but in Reddit r/wow post talking about legacy_server_petition_hits_200k the comments were saying things like:
(Top comments)
“I’d love to see a BC Legacy server and Karazhan until my eyes bleed.”
“I want a Wotlk server so I can play on that, Kara is my favorite raid ever though, so I would level on a BC server if it was available and LK was not”
“Imagine servers for every expansion… oh man. I’d have a couple of toons on WotLK because it’s my fav, but definitely one or two on BC and Cata”
“They should do like seasoins where you can progress as a server through the expansions. Then it all resets again like Diablo or something I think that’d be fun.”
“It would be awesome if they could go back through all the old expansions chronologically, copy characters over to the nex expansion server (if that’s possible)”
“This is what every server should be. Until you want to move to the next expansion, you should be capped at the max level for that expansion and in a phase only with players from that level range. When you level you could experience every expansion again.”
This comments are from the petition 8 years ago during WoD, and the general sentiment was PROGRESSION SERVERS THROUGH ALL EXPANSIONS in a seasonal matter, again back then until MoP included.
As you can see or you weren’t actually part of this movement and now you want to decide what is classic and what it is not, or you just don’t remember how things were. But I remember and thats is why is so ironic things like:
"And here we go, what was an outrage about a Vanilla server has now become to expand on it; a “but I want X server” and “but I want Y server.”
Seriously, the biggest reason Blizzard should not make a Vanilla legacy server is for this very reason. People will keep asking for more and more, because let’s face it, BC and WotLK are normally considered people’s favourite expansion and you can bet people will look at the Vanilla legacy server and ask, but why can’t we get a TNC, or WotLK server now?"
One of the reasons people against Classic in 2015 are technically the same, other people wanting to play their favorite expansion.
Again ironic.
Edit: Btw if you can read the comments in the linked post you can see how the petitions was about Legacy servers and NOT VANILLA specifically.
I’m not saying they are exactly the same persons, Im talking about they are saying essentially the same as those who didn’t want Legacy/Classic WoW to exist. And that’s a fact.
No, the classic movement was about vanilla WoW. pre-tbc. It was not about starting the cycle again. The progression people wanted was with patches, not expansions.
One guy says he liked Karazhan/TBC in 2015 and that means that people have been asking for Cataclysm since 2013? Lmao. Right I get it, lets forget all the discussion about specifically Vanilla, lets forget all the Nostalrius stuff and everything that lead to Vanilla WoW being re-released, lets forget how it was always specifically about Vanilla wow and lets attempt to change history based on vague anecdotes that could be twisted and intepreted to mean that people wanted progressive servers and Cataclysm, rather than specifically Vanilla.
If you actually think this, you were not there and you did not take part in any of this discussion. I was, you can find me talking about it on MMO champion, you can find me talking about it on these very forums.
Literally nobody was asking for Cataclysm prior to Classic, some people entertaining the idea of TBC/WOTLK again was dwarfed by the overwhelming main topic, which was Vanilla WoW, as it was back then. You’re attempting to pluck atoms out of an ocean to support a view that is purely in your imagination.
I had an entire post linking several MMO CHAMPION posts about legacy servers and not only Vanilla, but I can’t link here so hey, use google.
But yeah, you saying that I was trying to change history and trying to forget that how it was about Vanilla specifically (It wasn’t) its what I needed to see to not responding to you anymore.
I mean, I linked one of the biggest posts about the origin of Classic wow proving that it was about servers for all the expansions and not only Vanilla, you only have the “I was there trust me bro”
I mean, what reason anyone would have to be against Cataclysm Classic existing? Classic + its announced so we can play that aswell, you dont like cataclysm? Easy we have Classic Era and the new season/classic + (Or maybe even Wotlk era servers, I hope so). But if there are people who wants to play Cataclysm or MoP or WoD or whatever let them play lol
Even a freaking “you think you do but you don’t” line was said in response to the question about, and I quote, “PREVIOUS EXPANSIONS AS THEY WERE THEN”, not about “where my vanilla bruh”.
People are not against Cataclysm. People are against losing WOTLK. It’s that simple. They should reassure us, that they intend to keep some WOTLK ERA realms and the whole issue is resolved. The fact that they ignore this is absurd. I really hope we get some feedback in the next couple of days…
is that the “is considered one of the worst expansion” is not actually true. Only ask anyone who played Cataclysm when it came out what they think about Chogall or Nefarian, or Firelands, or the New ZG and ZA. They will probably say that those patches were amazing, like in MoP throne of Thunder or the intemporal island.