I am against cataclysm as it was complete garbage. But i am not going to play it so i am not to fuzzed about it either.
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Lmao that was in 2013, they weren’t talking about starting progressive servers so they could play Cataclysm again. So like I said “Show me one single example from 2013 of people wanting PROGRESSIVE servers, not classic”
It’s incredibly revisionist to act like the whole movement that lead to classic, wasn’t about Vanilla. Cataclysm so bad that even Blizzard knew it would be a “feature” to speed through the content faster, to get it over with, so much that they announced the feature on the main stage of Blizzcon.
lmao
Blizzard on WOTLK “Don’t worry, we won’t rush through it!” - “Crowd cheers!”
Blizzard on Cata “Don’t worry, we will rush through it” - “Crowd cheers!”
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Cata is fine with a faster patch cycle.
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Idk about your circles, but in my mind, the first really bad expansion was WoD. Cataclysm had an unfortunate brutal early first tier where a lot of guilds broke apart due to dog tier tuning, but that’s about it.
Sounds like someone is creating an imaginary ‘enemy’. Nobody said they don’t want cata - just many of us want to keep wotlk as well. Why would we care which expansion people choose to play?
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WOD was a great expansion without much content. People praise the levelling of WOD as being maybe the best of any expansion (I don’t agree on this btw, but whatever). But WOD had a pretty popular PvP scene, it had arguably one of the greatest raids ever released (Blackrock Foundry), it had one of the best sets of dungeons released to date, a noticable improvement from MOP imo.
WOD did lack of course though, so much cut content and retcons, the random nerfing of SV hunter (became clear as to why when Legion was announced) and other strange decisions, an example of an abandoned project.
Cata though was really on the backfoot from launch, on one hand you had top guilds praising the much harder content and on the other hand the forums were a warzone of people complaining the game was too hard, and then it devolving into the idea that you never left Stormwind/Orgrimmar unless you were teleporting to a dungeon/raid/bg. When they finally addressed the “this content too hard” for the casuals, they released Dragon Soul and LFR, which was a disaster. People all needing on items in LFR and then trying to sell them to other players, or ninjalooting for their friends.
Cataclysm was just… Crap to be honest, a few saving graces were Firelands, the legendary questlines, and the new Goblin/Worgen starting zones. I hated how they ruined the talent system, I hated how they ruined the classic Warrior playstyle even more. I mean WOD Warrior was garbage too aside from Prot/Glad, MOP had it good tho design wise but so much bloat it was excessive.
I’ma be honest, I think pre-cata gameplay for many classes is just better. Some specs are real cool in Cata/MOP, but overall na.
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And how many people have you seen asking for Cata not to be released at all?
Point out the threads to me? Name the people who are saying that.
You’ve made a patently false comparison. The ‘wall of no’ people in 2012 were screaming out ‘NO’ to any and all mentions of classic servers.
By contrast the overwhelming majority of people on here are not saying ‘NO’ to Cataclysm servers at all - though they generally think it’s a stupid idea - they’re saying ‘NO’ to not having their own dedicated Wrath-era servers.
Big difference.
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Interesting. I’ve heard this a lot. Speaking as someone who quit during Cataclysm and did not do any of the raids what was so widely disliked about Dragon Soul?
Raid itself wasn’t that memorable… i’d say it’s mid tier or even less if we’re talking about how good it is. LFR getting added didn’t help at all too… the LFR loot was farmed by everyone because the tier set bonuses were simply that good to pass on. If there’s no LFR this time around it would be ok. If there is LFR and they nerf LFR loot it would be ok too. Just hope we don’t get it the same way as we did back in the day.
Correction:
People who do not actually like difficult raids with personal responsibility. They just want to get drunk, hang out with the crew and have bosses fall over. Imo, if someone doesn’t care enough to put in the grind, they shouldn’t get the best loot either.
T11 and T12 were amazing.
Heroic dungeons however, at the launch of Cata were quite difficult and a big stepup from Wotlk that most people weren’t able to complete them for a good while without a coordinated group. Which, based on my experience in simple Gamma dungeons, would make sense people don’t want.
Sounds like Classic where people either raidlog or AFK in Dalaran.
Just like SR pugs in Classic.
Although I do agree that LFR & Normal Dragon Soul were utterly a joke.
Bummer. Cata had one of the best class design.
Dragon Soul most likely wouldn’t have had such bad rep if it didn’t last for so long.
Peronally, the delivery of the nerfs and the tail end of Cataclysm was what ruined it.
I don’t remember what tier Firelands was but it was the most depressing raid i have ever entered. Full of trash, depressing environment and forgettable bosses.
You’re in the minority there. Firelands was one of the most beloved raids in Cata.
It was pretty easy in normal mode along with a couple of heroic bosses being easy besides Ragnaros. Many guilds never even attempted it on heroic, in addition to people clearing DS HC who couldn’t down Ragnaros HC, so perhaps that’s why it got “depressing”.
No, i think Darkshore, Teldrassil and Tirisfal Glades are also depressing. I did not enjoy the environment at all. Dull and boring. So it had nothing to do with what you listed.
I will not be playing Cata
WE WANT
Wrath-era servers
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I don’t see how it’s more dull than let’s say Wrath and TBC compared to vanilla.
Feel you on this one though. Elune be with ya’ll.
Well I agree there’s no point saying NO CATA. There’s probably countless people that want cata. To be honest, I’d probably play it, albeit not in any serious way. There’s nothing wrong though in saying you don’t particularly plan or want to play cata.
What I do find a shame is that there’s no plan for wrath era. Classic Era became quite popular sometime after opening, and I think that’s in part because it’s now fully open and frozen. That means people that play sparingly and wouldn’t keep up with the content releases normally, now have essentially infinite time to level, gear and maybe eventually find an extremely casual guild to dabble in raiding or pvp. You can literally play the game at your own pace this way.
Likewise, an ICC stage wrath with LFD as it is right now is also ideal for a frozen in time realm or two. Personally I don’t think there would need to be more than 1 or 2 PvP, 1 PvE and 1 RP realm per region, layers can take care of the rest should they become popular.
It could be popular for the same reason. That is people that wanted to play wrath, but want to do it slowly. There are “alternative” ways to play wrath of the lich king and some of them have been operating for more than 5 years and are still pulling quite a few players in. How many are playing because they can for free? I don’t know. But what I do know is you have the full range from serious players to the most casual. But, even the most casual are able to experience ICC because, quite frankly you can just go at your own pace.
This would be a good official way to do so instead (for those not doing it for the fact it is free)
I kinda agree on BC not having era. It WOULD be nice to have every stage, but it’s liekly not practical to maintain. I had my BEST raiding time during BC (original release). But, going back to it felt a little weird and hard to get back into. As such, I really didn’t play BC classic much at all. I would really like to see Wrath era though. If only to give a nice official alternative to “the other places”.
And this pretty much sums it up
I’ll be damned all teh way to hell and back if I’m going to pay for Cata… it was a terrible expansion, with a terrible storyline and terrible features… its like they haven’t learnt a thing from first time round when they lost nearly 40% of their subs when Cata started to dry up
Wrath’s longevity was far better… but the thing that sticks in my throat most of all is ‘No you can’t have Wrath servers because we don’t think you want them’… aha… right… yeah well thats where you are wrong Dev’s… people DO want Wrath servers… so if you plan on forcing current WotLK base into Cata you can AGAIN expect to lose 40% of your subs… well done…
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not me. I played all expansion since Vanilla, I played Classic, tbc and wotlk, but I’m not gonna play cata.
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There are many factors leading to the sub drop over cataclysm, most of us growing up and out of MMO gaming and getting lives was a huge influence in my opinion, now 10 years later in 2019 we’re established and that same playerbase started classic, tbc and wrath.
I think people give cataclysm way too much credit towards the sub drops, instead of the fact that people who were playing a game for 6 years finally decided to stop and get a life (college, work, house).
How many games run for 6 years and still maintain its playerbase or grow? How many make a billion dollars?
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And cata didn’t have that “huge 40% drop”, that was MoP.
Cata had peak 12 mill and at worst mid/end Dragon soul 9.5 mill and back up again to 10mill in MoP prepatch.
MoP on the other hand its true that during its life cycle lost 40%± subs but funny enough, there are people against Cata who want MoP even though its BY FAR more “retail” than Cataclysm ever was. I Want MoP too BTW.
If I had to guess how the 2009-2012 subcount make sense it would be:
Vanilla and TBC people hated Wotlk (And anyone who played OG wotlk can confirm) and of course W3 fans loved ICC and Arthas, but Wrath was when a lot of the OG vanilla and TBC crowd unsubbed, anyone remember the Wrathbaby word?
Then how the sub count keep increasing? Because of the influx of new players. Wrath had a ton of new players because Wotlk was its first online game for them, 2008/2009/2010 the start of mainstream internet access. And cata had the same influx of new players, thats why even though the sentiment for Cataclysm its so negative, the sub count never dropped below 10 mill.
What happened in MoP? easy, the decline that WOTLK started continues BUT the influx of new players stopped. Why? Because 2011/2012 was the golden era of Mobas and console shooters.
League of Legends was the new entry point to online gaming (Or if you never had a PC, maybe CoD Modern Warfare 2 or Halo if you had an xbox), while WoW had a pretty big entry barrier thanks to needing to buy ALL THE EXPANSIONS and monthly payments, League was free, just download it and play it whenever you wanted.
League was launch in 2009, kept growing during early and mid cata days (2010/2011) and in 2012 was one of the biggest games in the world.
Of course everyone have their favourite expansion, but repeating the “subs drop” argument its pointless because there are so much external context to the drop that expansions are almost irrelevant in the grand scheme.
BTW some people think that this post is about the wotlk era defenders crowd and its not. Im part of that group too.
Its about those Vanilla only andies who doesn’t even play Wotlk and just hates everything that classic does if its not in Classic era servers.
The same people hating LFD without playing TBC or wotlk.
Those people.
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