The Problem with Alliance RP -- Extended Thoughts

There was an extensive thread on this recently, but I believe that this deserves its own thread to discuss solutions, rather than problems (and will therefore be a lot less popular!) For some time now, people have wondered what exactly is wrong with Alliance RP – there has been a general milieu and feeling of something being wrong, but none of us can quite put our fingers on exactly what this is.

In my opinion, having played the server since Vanilla, there are a number of significant but not insurmountable issues. What it will take is more ability to compromise than this community may presently possess.

Lore 'Compliance’

I put quotes around compliance because, frankly, there is so much white-space left as to what is and is not canon within World of Warcraft that it’s impossible to cite facts and figured about a huge amount of what exists in the world our characters live in – but we must still do our best to make it fun and believable for the vast majority, even though many of the characters we interact with may have differences in understanding about the specifics of certain things.

I don’t have any solution to propose here except suspension of disbelief – much less than our characters have a wikipedia to refer to, poor characters may be unlikely to have a watch to even check the time – though I’m sure someone out there will pull out a line of quest text demonstrating the massively cheap availability of pocketwatches, sort of proving my point – we don’t need to assume our characters know things in lore, they have their own beliefs, rumours things they’ve been thought by their parents. When characters have differing beliefs in character about lore, let them be reflected by the beliefs of the characters, not the knowledge of the player.

More important than lore though, and I think the key point of this post:

Institutions & A Shared Narrative

In my opinion, perhaps because AD was smaller then, it was easier to know what was going on – almost everywhere. Rumours about the Legitimate Business Club running in fake watches, the City Watchman meant to be watching for them at the bay asleep, the Shield of Light holding a service to the fallen of the north, while yet more fell in hopeless campaigns. Argentism, if anyone remembers it, was an anti-Argent movement that characters have feelings towards and comment upon it to this day. The Shadow Sentinels had spies in every corner, and often even in other guilds, but without OOC malice – and when discovered, failure was taken with relative grace.

Now, this isn’t to paint a rosy picture that everything was perfect. We had arguments, bitter ones, OOC backstabbing, ridiculous and childish OOC politics, and people fell out so badly that they didn’t talk to one another for years, some of my own included. We did, however, have one shared goal – to tell interesting stories, to create an interesting narrative, and to entertain.

Now, it feels that the first priority of guild leaders is numbers – numbers count for everything, because we have destroyed our institutions. At any one time, 3 terrible emote fighter army guilds could unite and try go burn down the Watch House, arrest the Watch, do whatever they want – could they? No, because that was our Watch, something not always cherished by characters, but certainly by players.

Kerengar, the leader of The Shield of Light, was the first person chosen every time a trial event came up, because he was the recognised paragon of the Church guild. Dalrick and the High Court of Chancery were generally recognised as representing the judicial institution, adding another layer of engagement and interaction to the city’s and infrastructure, and while at that time I didn’t always get along with Didonus either IC or OOC, some truly excellent and memorable RP was created because The Royal Court existed, could be interacted with – political drama was a possibility. Infrastructure within Stormwind existed, and while it was certainly FAR from perfect, it was a much better state of affairs than its total absence, which appears to be what we have now.

The Present Day

As far as what we do have now, I find it difficult to say – I don’t play as much as I used to, but it seems to be fractured, cliquey and more than a little vitriolic. Perhaps I am being too harsh, but guild leaders have gotten too addicted to the dopamine hit from having many members online, and they understand full well that whoever has the most members, has the most power, because that is what power dynamics on Alliance have been reduced to - no subtlety, no subterfuge. It almost seems to be treated like a competition between power blocs, whereby people break into cliques that refuse to get along with each other or compromise in any respect OOC, and whose IC interactions (if they exist at all) are predicated around one-upping the other party.

There is similarly an issue whereby people are not willing to be consistent, and respect one another on a baseline level – new guard guilds are not given an opportunity to flourish (comment #235235 about ‘here we go again’ as soon as they post their thread), anything perceived to wield authority is absolutely slammed due to our collective PTSD in that regard. Personally, one of my characters is a captain – if another character tells him they are a major, he will call them major, or sir, and give them due deference. If they tell him to do something absurd or immersion-breaking, he will likely make some excuse. We NEED to apply the same principle to guilds! Give people a chance. We will absolutely never have what we always complain about wanting if we never give it the opportunity to flourish. It makes me shudder a little to think that Nath might have posted his Stormwind City Watch thread, and been subjected to the forum equivalent of a pillorying, for what was to become one of the most beloved guilds the server has seen.

I could talk about what I think the causes of this are – lore disagreements, ego clashes, a whole colorful medley – but I think that has been very aptly covered in the other thread. What I’d like to discuss are solutions, and not solutions such as ‘we need to be nicer to each other’ or ‘try to be more understanding’ because sadly while some individuals may well, it won’t change the problems we’re facing.

I’d like for people to discuss this for a while. I have a solution in mind, maybe, but I’d really like to see what people think.

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I mean some valid points perhaps but why did this need another thread for it?

And because the other thread has derailed into some bizarre discussion about pedophilia.

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I’ve only recently ((since BFA began-ish)) felt as though there is a large portion of players who value OOC way too much, to the extent that natural RP is looked down upon because it conflicts with some OOC plan or goal, or because the character wasn’t made aware before the RP was sprung.

I reckon this has existed since the start of time but I guess my experiences with it have only become more frequent over time. There is a lot of positives with discussing certain things OOC, but at a point it just sours the RP for me

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Because it ends up getting abused 9 out of 10 times.

Those players are mostly gone.

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I think this is interesting. Do you mean in the context of plots, events, campaigns?

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I once posted a very well known letter and found myself being told that I should’ve whispered the person before posting it, which really I just don’t agree with. I reckon, really, you should only be asking someone OOC if they’re alright with something negative happening to their character if it involves physical harm/death.

Campaigns are a bit weird since there are obviously some things that a character can do that might ruin something fun + cool planned by the guy leading it, but I recall very fondly back in Krasarang when Wrall split the campaign attendees IC between two leaders, and part of me wonders how that would be taken by a lot of people today

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Yes, Amarae’s Stormguard for one definitely contributed to a massive distrust of authority guilds. It was difficult (became impossible) for them to do their whacky Terry Pratchett-style criminal RP with the iron boots of plated soldiers beating them black and blue.

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I think this is still a very generous ratio, really. But yeah, this is why any form of claimed authority in RP gets big ol’ frown cast its way.

I think the distrust for authorithy guilds comes from them being unable to accept other people’s RP and opinions, and usually end up throwing OOC tantrums and use the infamous “realmwide ignore lists” when someone doesn’t accept their IC/OOC autorithah.

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I think that would be softened if there was a person (or people) generally trusted to direct and moderate that kind of infrastructural, mid-to-moderate level political roleplay. The question is whether they exist.

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Probably the divide of the Alliance community as a whole, the Horde seems far more united under terms of roleplay. Though I’ve found with Alliance, there’s just an extreme difference between each and every characters perception of thing. Badly worded, but essentially differences between levels of fantasy etc, either way can be fun but when both are together say at RP PVP campaigns, immersion can feel a lot more disjointed.

I’m no expert on the Horde, I’ve rped on the Horde 3 times specifically. But from what I’ve gathered, things seem a lot more united.

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They don’t. The roleplayer of 2007/2008 is very different from the roleplayer of 2019. Back then people generally wanted to invest, today they just want a quick fix. It takes a long time to garner trust, and that does not want work when you want it all right here and right now.

At least, that is my experience.

Another question is if the server even has enough devoted players to man institutions these days. I do not think that is the case.

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I think you’re right in that guilds like the Stormwind City Watch and LBC would struggle to exist these days. Partly from the loss of the guild leaders who were responsible for some of the pivotal events and roleplay that they brought - even a controversial figure like Amarae brought a sense of legitimacy with her and her Stormguard - and partly from how roleplay in general has changed.

The solution to this isn’t to rag on whoever is now spending their time roleplaying whatever characters they are (obvious damaging or dangerous concepts aside), but to try and, as you said, make the effort to build those bridges and create those more public hubs that then drive stories amongst a community rather than acting in a bubble. My guild may struggle to do this with its concept based on travelling and sometimes engaging in events alone, but I’m still going to try and make that effort to easily forgive and build something for the sake of a community.

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There are more guilds on Horde side that are heavily loyal to the Horde and know how to represent compared to Alliance roleplay.

On Alliance, I see a lot more mercenary concepts that claim to be with the Alliance but aren’t really. So you also never see Alliance roleplayers represent their faction or stand together.

And indeed, a lot of Alliance players like to undermine one another, but sometimes I can’t tell if that’s due to the characters and guild concepts they portray or there’s a lot of people who have these OOC motives.

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winks at the camera

Alas, you need consent and approval on the side of the blues to do anything, whether that is posting an In character letter on the forums or approaching a fellow roleplayer.

I personally feel that is the answer, it seems roleplayers get indoctrinated to ask for permission to do the smallest things, but then you don’t get the pleasure of truly random roleplayer encounters.

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There are still players around who’ve been around for a long time, and who I would trust with RP like that.

Good question, but I feel that the server has plenty population – they’re just scattered around, not doing a lot of inter-guild interaction except at campaigns and big server events. At those events it’s generally that I get the old feeling of a buzzing community, so I definitely think it’s not impossible to revive something like it – and if it is, perhaps I’ll just back to running events and stuff.

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Indeed, but are they interested in spending weeks or even months, again, to build up an institution? In general, those players play far less than they used to. And just like many people sub and unsub on a whim.

In reply to Albrecht, there’s a large proportion of players that wish to roleplay but simply haven’t garnered the confidence to do so yet. These players tend to be unseen, though they’re definitely all around. So yea, it comes down to motivation as the population seems to be fine.

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The bubbled state of Alliance RP nowadays makes me genuinely sad, it was so much more fun when stuff was more connected and organised. Now it’s just… Random and recruitment RP. Having fun in SW is really difficult now. I have no idea how it could be fixed, or if people even want to fix it.

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